In this episode of the Strong Conversations Podcast – Building the Brand Series, host Sam Marcoux sits down with John Kelly, founder of the Kelly Design Group, to discuss his journey from a hands-on builder to one of the most well-known structural engineers in Las Vegas. John’s story is one of resilience, ambition, and overcoming incredible odds—including surviving a near-fatal accident that reshaped his outlook on life and business. What You’ll Learn in This Episode: - How John’s early hands-on experience in construction gives him a unique perspective as an engineer - His journey from framing jobs in college to leading a top design firm - The accident that left him with 28 broken bones—and how he fought his way back - How that experience influenced his decision to start his own company with just $30,000 and one client - The importance of real communication and relationships in business - Why panelization and off-site construction are shaping the future of the industry John’s story is about more than just structural engineering—it’s about determination, adaptability, and never backing down from a challenge. Whether you’re in the construction industry or looking for inspiration to take your own risks, this episode is full of valuable insights.
START: JOHN KELLY
(SM) Alright welcome back to another edition of the Strong Conversations podcast. I am Sam Marcoux and this is the Building the Brand series. And joining me right now is a very special guest, Mr. John Kelly. John, how are you?
(JK) Doing well. Glad to be here.
(SM) I am glad you're here. This is not the first time that we have spoken. This is not the first time that we have spoken about some of the things that have happened in your life, but when we started putting together this series of podcasts, I was talking to my coworkers, people that were saying who would be good guests, and the name that floated the top for me was you, Mr. John Kelly, from the Kelly Design Group. So for the uninitiated, for those that don't know who you are, what is it that you do?
(JK) Well, I provide structuring services for production home builders, multi-fanning builders, custom home builders. We do a number of types of engineering, everything from commercial work and forensic work, but I would say, you know, the majority of what we're known for is wood frame buildings, production homes and it's been good for us. It's, it's a mindset. It's a different way of thinking and when it comes to design versus cost, I mean, ever since they built the pyramids, you had to consider manpower and what things cost, labor and such when putting things together. So I'm one of the few engineers who are going to meet that. I had bags on when I was a young man. It's a lot of piece of work. I stapled my hand to a roof. They took my cat's paw and they laughed at me. I mean, you know, I've actually built things. You know, I've done a lot of things. In fact, that was going to be a cabinet make when I was young. You know when I was a very young man. So anyway, I mainly, like I say, we're licensed in Utah, California, Nevada, and Arizona. I'd say most of our work is in Nevada right now.
(SM) Okay, we're gonna we're gonna get to the design work, but you just said something you just casually threw this in. This is a very, a very John Kelly thing to do. I have noticed. You just said you're one of the few engineers and I would agree with you that had bags on, meaning you swung the hammer. You've you made a few connections out of it.
(JK) ….inaudible…. three joints hammer? Yeah, I've done it.
(SM) And did you say that you stapled your hand to the roof?
(JK) Yeah, I was putting on some paper and I wasn't paying attention and looked at my buddy and was talking and I caught the meat between my thumb and my finger and so, you know, obviously, you know, it was uncomfortable. I'm trying to find my hammer, my cat’s paw, and the suckers grabbed it from me and then so I'm just sitting there, I'm like, all right, ha ha, very funny, you know, get me out of this, but, you know, like, oh well, I was all right, it wasn't that bad.
(SM) I was all right. I just stapled myself to the house that I was building.
(JK) …inaudible… roof nail on for your shit. I mean, I've done all the damn piecework. I used to get 15 cents a block for piecework, you know, a lot of blocking. Yeah. So I've done a little bit. I mean, I never took on the career, you know, full time.
(SM)Right.
(JK) It was just one of my many part-time jobs during college, but, you know, I know I've had a hammer and a saw in my hand, you know, so.
(SM) Well, that's going to be invaluable when you are putting practicality into your designs.
(JK) It helps. When talking to framers, I understand. Yeah, what they're talking about.
(SM) Yeah, 100%. Do you ever catch them by surprise when they're like, well, you don't know how it works and you’re like actually, I kind of do.
(JK) Oh, yeah, the more than once. Because I wear the tie, you know, yeah then I have the whatever that look, they they think I'm just a guy that sits in the office, in an air-conditioned office and punches numbers and draws details that can't be built.
(SM) Yeah
(JK) No, no, it's not my it's not my deal. They can't be built. We're not gonna we're not gonna, you know, I could do it for you. So, yeah, every now and then a framer will, I mean, and thenonce he knows, then we're friends, yeah, right away, so.
(SM) Well, it's a tie that binds you for sure. I mean, it's like, and by the way, for those that are just listening to this and not watching this, John is very dabby. You've got the tie, you've got the suit.
(JK) Yean, well, just, no.
(SM) You look good, man.
(JK) Thank you.
(SM) I kind of want them to just pan to you. I don't need to be in the shot anymore.
(JK) Oh, I don't think you look bad. ….inadudible….
(SM) Well, hey, so how'd you get started in structural engineering? Like you said, part-time job in college, you're swinging a hammer, you got all these different jobs. Did you know at that point you were gonna be a structural engineer or was that something that happened later?
(JK) No, no, I didn't. Actually, my father was in the Navy. So San Diego was one of his last stops in a number of cities across the United States. Every two years we were moving and I spent a week on an aircraft carrier, with my dad. It was called a tiger cruise. It was after a west-pac tour, which was a nine month tour. They stopped on Hawaii and they sent half the crew home, and then a lot of fathers can bring their kids on the boat and we’d take the rest of the trip from Hawaii to San Diego on the boat and we did all kinds of things. They shot an M16 out of the fantail, crawling out of airplanes in the ready room. [04:31]
(JK) All the scenes you see in the Top Gun, I was in all those rooms and all that. I wanted to be a pilot and then once I realized I didn't have a body like Tom Cruise and perfect eyesight and perfect hearing and all the other things, I was like okay. So then I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer which was also a good business in the 90s, but then the economy kind of died and actually I started at UCSD. I started in electrical engineering and I took about a year of that and it just wasn't fitting. I gravitated over towards structural engineering and it's been right for me and at 17 years old I was able to choose the right path and hear I am him today, I love what I do and it was definitely made for me.
(SM) That's pretty incredible to like at 17 you are literally a teenager and a child or a minor, not even an adult, and you kind of figured out this is what I'm gonna do.
(JK) Yeah I started college at 17 and it was tough. It was a whole new….I thought I was smart. I was in the mentally gifted programs and I thought I was pretty sharp. I got to UC San Diego, well, I'll tell you the curve, curve changed a little bit, I had to learn how to study again, but it was good for me, it was a tough school, but it helped me become who I am today.
(SM) I thought I was smart and then it just turned out I had a lot of dumb friends that I hung out with and then when I started hanging around smart people, I'm like, oh, I'm just okay. Like you kind of, like it was a challenge for me kind of after that, but….inaudible…. So your first job in the industry, was it framing, been doing piecework?
(JK) Well, so to speak. In the industry, yes, but for when of my first jobs when I was an engineer, I worked for a small company in a little town called La Habra, which was kind of in the middle of Orange County and we did, we did a lot of cool form steel designs.
(SM) Oh, wow.
(JK) And a lot of a lot of high rise, a lot of commercial work. We did a lot of wood engineers. We never had to deal with lateral torsion or flexural buckling on coliform steel studs and frames and we made entire, you know, structures out of coliform steel back then and so it was fine. It was a really good experience. So I would say that was my first introduction to the industry, so to speak.
(SM) I'm just going to nod my head yes because you just said four words in a row that had multiple syllables and I don't know what any of them means individually, let alone collectively, but smart stuff there. So that first stop as a structural engineer, how old are you like 21 22 or?
(JK) Well, I had a little bit of a mishap at UC San Diego. It was a five year program to get a four year degree, a structural engineering degree, which was awesome. Not many colleges offered an undergrad structural engineering degree at the time. So I was probably 25.
(SM) Okay.
(JK) Yeah, probably around 25. [07:04]
(SM) Did that feel like home, that first place? Or was it like, okay, I'm coming here, I'm gonna get the experience, but I've got these other plans in mind. Like, what was that mindset?
(JK) I always wanted to own my own company. I always wanted … I wanted to have a million dollars in the bank by the time I was 30. That was my goal as a teenager. In the '80s, a million dollars seemed like a lot of money, but in the beginning, it was tough, of course, making that transition from college, is a weird place. It’s always a little bit of a difficult transition, but I was lucky enough to work for a smaller firm and a very, very intelligent gentleman named Edward Linskog. EXL Structural Engineers. He was an amazing, sharp, man. He was so intuitive and I would struggle with something. I studied it the night before and I’d I come in the next day to work and ask him questions and he would just go, blah blah blah…. He taught me the KISS method. Okay. Keep it simple, stupid.
(SM) Keep it simple, stupid.
(JK) And the smartest guys I've ever met, the most intelligent, truly intelligent people, that's what they did. They’d keep it simple. They don't try to show how smart they are.
(SM) Yeah.
(JK) Here's the answer. So, you know, that was nice.
(SM) It almost goes back to that principle of the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right? Like, why complicate it.
(JK) Why would you? Well, some of the guys that think they're smart, they try to show you how smart they are. They're really on it.
(SM) So this is early 90s?
(JK) Yes.
(SM) All right. So youre in the grunge era.
(JK) Yeah, in the grunge era, sure.
(SM) Were you listening to Nirvana and Pearl Jam?
(JK) Sure.
(SM) That was your...inaudible….
(JK) Yeah, it was great. I had a lot of fun.
(SM) That's good. That's good music. That was a good era. [08:42]
(JK) Uh, you know, you've got flannel shirts with the thermals, you know, and the jeans and the whole deal.
(SM) Hey, you're in a full-fledged suit right now.
(JK) Yeah, but back then, man, that’s what you did. I mean, you know.
(SM) So walk me through what I, you go to the, from that small firm, where'd you go next?
(JK) Yeah and, uh, after about five years in 94, almost 95, I believe, uh, I wanted to make a change and went to a company in Irvine called Born Associates. They were interested in my experience in cold-formed steel at the time. It was still kind of an emerging material as a structural material, not just a curtain wall or a partition. To build actual bearing walls with it and things and trusses and frame floors with it was still kind of a new idea. So they hired me and I worked with them for five or six years. I opened their office in Las Vegas. That's what got me to Las Vegas and it was a lot of fun. The cold-formed steel stuff we did, we were some of the first engineers to use screws to attach plywood to the cold-formed steel and make shear walls. That's in the code now. It wasn't back then. We made trusses out of cold-formed steel sections. It was an emerging time, so to speak, with cold-formed steel. I still think it's a great material to build with.
(SM) It's very innovative design work, too. I mean, for the times, right? People listening to this, especially engineers might not know that, but you guys were on the cutting edge.
(JK) We were because at that time cold-formed steel was just for partitions or curtain walls. It just wasn't used for bearing walls, but it's a very, if you brace it properly and design properly, it's a very, very, uh, very economical and then stout material.
(SM) Yeah. So, so I'm going to, uh, we're going to pivot off of the career path because you and I met earlier this year, we were walking from one location to another and we'd been introduced by an associate. We were just walking and talking and we got on the subject, I think I'd probably asked you about a very similar situation, you know, how'd you get started, all that fun stuff, and tell me about your life. 'Cause people are interesting and this story is one of the most fascinating, interesting ones that I may have ever heard in my life, quite frankly and I don't want to oversell it, but I just remember you telling me this story and my jaw was on the freaking floor hearing this ordeal. So were you in Vegas when this happened?
(JK) Yes, I was living in Las Vegas when I had an accident. At the time, I was at my buddy's place on the Colorado River near Blythe, California, and I had an off road accident, but I was living in Las Vegas and I believe I was still, yeah, I was still working for Borne Associates at the time and, you know, I was an adrenaline junkie, loved off-roading. I had to replace my knee. I played a lot of sports in high school and before high school and so that adrenaline, you know, rush you get from most, I think off-road kind of replaced that when I was in my 20s. I had some conversation with some scouts to play college football, but I wasn't big enough and I knew I wasn't so I just wanted to get my education and move on. [11:46]
(JK) So I got into off-roading which was a lot of fun. I still do a little bit of it, but more a little more safe way I like to believe, but It you know, it was just kind of one of those things that just kind of happened and nobody expected it.
(SM) So you talked about… and I believe the adrenaline junkie thing. You were talking about wanting to be a fighter pilot, you know, airplanes ….inaudible…. You're going to go find that, right? You're going to go find something to kind of satisfy that part.
(JK) Things like that, I get drawn to. Yeah, but yeah there’s a lot of things, you know, snow skiing, paragliding, hang gliding, jumping out of airplanes, diving in the ocean. A lot of things we do are dangerous, but sometimes you don’t realize how dangerous they are.
(SM) Right and that's kind of where I wanted to go. Help me around this. So you're out with friends, and you're camping, are you at your buddy's place?
(JK) Yeah, I was at my friend's place at the river, and it was a big weekend. It was Labor Day…no it was Memorial Day weekend in May and I had been working a lot of long hours. I was really hyped up about the weekend and we spent the days on the water, on the river, jet skiing, and then we’d ride ATVs and dune buggies at night and the dunes were across the highway. We were just having a fun weekend hanging out friends. I got there late, a little bit late, on a Friday evening. I pulled my ATV off the back of the truck and said, "Hey, I'm going to buzz at farmers field real quick." There was kind of a farmers field real close to where my buddy lived or where his place was. In an ATV, a four wheeler, that's fun, you slide through the corners and that's what you do. It’s fun. And, you know, I had two speeds on and off, you know, it was either go or not and so I said I’m going to buzz of farmers field real quick. For some reason, I turned a little early into this field and instead of going all the way to the corner, I turned a little early and I guess that day some kids were playing around at night, and you know, we're traveling at 70, 80 miles an hour and it's, you know, it's hard to stop on a dime.
(SM) Right.
(JK) So anyway, I turned a little early and end up in the middle of this field and on my favorite trail there’s this big tree. It's two foot, two and a half foot down and 30 feet long and like I say it came up on me quick. I think my foot slipped off the peg. I think I broke my leg before I hit the tree, but the memories sometime they fade and go back and forth. Anyway, it was night and I was traveling very fast and I ended up hitting this tree. I broke my leg and my right femur, I stabbed it into the tree I hit. I actually have three inches of my femur in a bag at home, but my friends, god bless them, they went and got the bone out the tree the next day and recovered my bike that was all crumpled, but I just ….inaudible… the story is. If you’re into off-road and you go over and you get the air knocked out of you, you get back on your bike and you go home. It happens. That's …you’re having fun. You’re on the edge of trouble. So yeah, the first time I woke up and again, this a night when I’m off by myself, but my friends are only a few yards away.
(SM) What year is this by the way? [14:52]
(JK) This was 1999.
(SM) Okay, so it's 1999, cell phones existed, but they're not prevalent.
(JK) They weren't they weren't prevalent at all. I didn't have mine on me, but it was only the farmers, you know, it was a few yards away. I was in the farmer's field, but as it turns out they just couldn't find me because I wasn't quite where I was supposed to be, so to speak, and it was dark, but anyway, so like, you know, you go…and again, if you're used to off road, you go over, you get the air knocked out of you, you know, it happens. The first time I woke up, I was like, all right, I’m going to lay here for a minute. I'll be okay. No big deal. Then the second time I woke up, I'm still messed up pretty bad. I look down I see my boot on my chest it says Axo it's the brand of boots I have and I’m like oh that's not good. I look down I see my bone sticking out my leg and I’m like oh this is really not good. Oh, and here’s the funny part, I thought because if you're going off-road you always had a kit on your bike with like zip ties and duct tape and bailing wire and things because if you go over and you break off the handles and things and you got to get home, how are you going to drive that thing? Anyway, so there I am laying there thiking, if I can get to my bike I got this 3/8 extension, I can tape this up and I can make it home. Yeah, well that didn't happen. That didn’t happen at all. So I laid there a little while longer. I’d been there quite a while. As far as we estimate, I hit the tree at around 11:30 to midnight and they found me at about 5;00. If the sun had come up, I’d have bled out for sure because of the heat, but the third time I woke up, I knew I'd been there a while. It was kind of cold. It was real quiet. You can hear crickets almost and beautiful sky, a lot of stars out there at the river. There was a lot of light pollution and I'm laying there and I knew, I knew I'd been there a while. You know, for the first time, I got scared and, you know, I had a few other life threatening experiences before then. Some other things like car accidents and whatever, but this is going to sound like a humble brag, but it's important to the story. I remember laying there and the fear of death, when you really, when I finally, I said my last prayer, I saw, all right, this this is it. I'm gonna just die right here and you fear is uh you can't, it's hard to describe. It was a fear like none other, but as luck would have it, my friends finally found me. The police came and the ambulance is coming. So they’re shaking me and they're trying to get an idea of my awareness. You know, "Who's the president? Who's the president?" and I go, "Pheffin Clinton” and they’re like yeah, he's all right. Get him in and let’s go." So they took me to the nearby Palo Verde Hospital where they did a little triage on me and then they life-flighted me to Palm Springs. I broke 28 bones. I my face, My face. I have metal all over my face, in my arm, leg. It was bad, but I survived and here to talk with you and tell a fun story.
(SM) Not only did you survive, I mean, I kind of unofficially titled this survive and thrive because you broke 28 bones. You're in the middle of the night by yourself, no real way to get a hold of your friends who actually aren't that far away, but can't find you.
(JK) Right.
(SM) And had it been five hours later or if the sun was out, we’re not here today. [18:25]
(JK) That’s facts, yeah.
(SM) And this is the story that I was telling everybody that put my jaw on the ground talking to you about this. We were just talking about it before we pushed record on the old button here, in that moment, did you have any sort of like epiphany with regards to work? Like did work pop into your head in that moment or is it just …
(JK) No no I was laying on the ground and you know I told God to tell my family I love them and you know I just kind of I kind of gave up you know to be honest which is again really strange because tthat just wasn't my nature.
(SM) Right.
(JK) But, uh, no some of that came a little bit later in the process, in the healing process. It was a long healing process.
(SM) Let's let's talk about that. That healing process all in, what was that like? What did that entail and how long did that take?
(JK) Yeah, well, I spent the first week or two in Palm Springs and they they did 10 cat 10 cat scans a day. They couldn't figure out why I didn’t have any brain damage really bad or spinal cord damage, which thank God I didn't. Um, but then they, you know, they decided I was stable and then plastic surgery to put my face back together, which I thought I had more jaw personally. I don't know. Well, anyway, you know he did what he could, I guess, with what he had to work with. Then they life-flighted me back over to Las Vegas, um, at ICU at, um, at, um, the hospital in Las Vegas and I was in the hospital for four or five months or so, about four months and then I graduated from there. I wasn't bad enough to be in a hospital, but I wasn't good enough to go home yet. So I went to like a home healthcare facility on Harmon by the college. Kind of an old folks home kind of place. Assisted living almost, but then I could still get intensive care if I needed it and God bless my mom. She was a nurse for 45 years and she dropped everything, her whole life, and came out and sat. She slept in a chair at 58 years old for six months. She made sure I got all my medicine made sure I got anything I needed. Then, there were some stories there. When they moved me they didn't they didn't tell anybody. They told my family and they show up four or five days later and thought I was in Palm Springs but I was in Vegas and you know, I had all this food stacked on the table next to me and I literally couldn't feed myself, couldn't wipe my own butt. I mean it was bad and these folks weren't really taking care of me like they should have and they did some other things wrong when they shipped me across state lines without permission and a whole bunch of stuff. But, my mom, God bless her and with her experience and of course being my mom, she really helped me a lot to get back to health and to this day, I don't forget it.
(SM) No, I mean, that's incredible, incredible dedication. So you're going through your rehabilitation, your healing, you've got a lot, I mean, obviously you're going through a lot there. When does work pop back into your head?
[21:40]
(JK) It's funny. It was pretty quick, actually. I'm laying her on the bed after they got me to Las Vegas and my family they still, they still joke about this. My nephew came in to visit me. He was about 5 at the time. I could barely see him in the bed. He looked at me and was, "Uncle John, you're all broke." And I go, “Yeah buddy, I’m all broke." And then I say, “Can somebody get me a laptop, I got some work to do.”
(SM) You get right into it.
(JK) They're looking at me like, "No, honey, you can't even move your fingers." I'm like, "No, I got work to do." “No, no”. So, yeah, of course, it was on my mind. Because, you know, of course, in our business, it's, you know, you gotta get things done and so, yeah, I started kinda asking for my laptop to try and get back to work early on, but I couldn't even use my fingers still. You know, I was in traction. You know, I had more surgeries to do. It was, it was, it was, it was funny, I guess, at the moment.
(SM) You go through something like that and you go through, you know, being broke as your nephew would say, you get fixed, you repair, you move on, you survive, and then you thrive. What lessons do you take from that accident that may be apply work? And I'm fascinated because I do think we are products of our environment and the environment you're in right there is harrowing to say the least. So what do you take from that experience and how does it apply to work, if anything, or does it not?
(JK) It does, it's all together you know with people because you know we’re family and good engineers. All of us know are often good family men and or you know it's all tied together. I think some of the cliches ring true in these days. At least you have your health. Yeah, you're right well, when you can't even wipe your own butt or feed yourself at 33 years old and I was really strong. I was in great shape. I used to I was a bodybuilder for a long time and to go from that to, you know, I can't feed myself. That was, that was very tough and it was a crawl and again, that wasn't my first struggle with things and near death experiences or just bad accidents or whatever, but that crawl back to life, back to reality, without my friends and family, one good friend of mine from San Diego. Her name is Sherry, Sherry Ames. She came out every weekend to see me and just, if nothing else, to just sit next to me and hold my hand. You know just you know it was it was critical to my recovery. If I didn't have my family and my faith in God, which helped a lot, tthere's no way I could have recovered even in the six or eight months that I did. It would have been a lot longer or maybe maybe not at all. It was tough crawl. No doubt about it, but during that recovery time, you have a lot of time to think, What do I want to do with my life. What's really important. You know, and people talk about, you know, friends and family and live every day like at your last. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. I don't know. I can't say I'm necessarily living the cliches as much as I'd like to, but I, you know, I do my best to do the best job I can in my eight to ten hours at work and leave it. If I'm playing pool with my friends in my league or if I'm you know at the gym or anywhere I'm at, I just try and enjoy that person's time and that moment with them because really life's a collection of moments and you put them together and you know, that's that's your life. [25:18]
(SM) Yeah, your life so you were working for an engineering firm when this all happened. You spent a lot of time getting right, getting back together. Is it, did it motivate you? 'Cause you'd already talked about, John, I wanna run my own business. I wanna have my own thing. Did this whole experience maybe hasten that a little bit to say, "Okay, now it’s the time."
(JK) Absolutely, yeah. I just decided, "Hey look, life's too short."
(SM) Yeah.
(JK) It really is. If I'm gonna do it, I may as well do it now and within a year, eight months to a year, I started my own company with $30 ,000 in the bank and one client.
(SM) Who was that first client? Obviously, it was somebody you knew already, I'm assuming.
(JK) Yeah, it was Beazer Homes.
(SM) Beazer Homes was your first client.
(JK) I did all their work, from like 2000 to 2004, right in there.
(SM) Okay and you're in Vegas. You start, was it the Kelly Design Group?
(JK) Yeah. KDG. KDG LLC and then I switched to an Inc format, but it's always been the Kelly Design Group.
(SM) Okay, so names on the wall, names on the door. You got your own business? Yep. You made it?
(JK) Yeah. Well I’m still in there. 25 years later, I'm still hanging in.
(SM) We were talking a little bit about this. A colleague of mine, Ramsey, you know, Ramsey, he's not good with the numbers. So he goes, "I think John Kelly is responsible for like 91% of all the projects that come through Las Vegas, which may be a little high, but you have a substantial percentage. All the design work going through Las Vegas has your stamp on it, or did at some point, right?
(JK) …inaudible… Yes we did a lot of work in the early days, especially on steel, my former company, …inaudible… It was good. It was a good experience. We were able to use the interactions with different builders and different contractors to put together a really solid set of plans and details that people loved and it was economical, it worked great, it sold itself, it was good.
(SM) How do you go from, but I mean, you had one client, a good client, to one of the most well known design firms in Las Vegas. How does that happen? What do you attribute that to? [27:25]
(JK) Well, hard work, it's a lot of it. Kissing babies and shaking hands and you know being out talking to people. It's a lot of time. Really it's mostly time because you don't get to make relationships with an email or a text. You know a lot of people think email is communication. No, you're just submitting information. That's what emails are. Communication is communication with us like this and I've always been You know that kind of guy. I like to meet and to talk to you. I know that that seems to be fading away with digital, webinar and web calls and things, but I think that's what the most…I made good friends with contractors. Iit was a funny story. I was a member of the Framing Contractors Association, that I could tell maybe if you want.
(SM) Yeah, hear it.
(JK) Quick story. I don't know, I guess I associated a lot with contractors and hung out with them and I understood them. They understood me and I got to be friends. I joined the Framing Contractors Association, and they had monthly meetings, maybe, or quarterly meetings, and usually 8 to 10 guys show up, not really big. Sometimes they'd talk about this truss company from this other state coming in and how are we gonna handle it and they would talk about different things, and one of the new codes, I don't know when the coachings would come, I believe it was the, what was it, it was the six code probably somewhere in there and they wanted me to talk in front of the group and talk about what is our equal and who gets to pick alternate hardware and what is what does our equal really mean. Of course, I love your symbol for no equal, but at that time, there were so many different types of hardware in the market. Heartland Metal, ACS, of course, Simpson Strong Tie, Gameplate. I mean there was a dozen different companies and it seemed like people would just nail on any piece of metal or any nail and any screw and they would just kind of wing it and then of course and one inspectors of that time, Tom Gage, at the City of Las Vegas. He was very… some people didn't like him, but I liked him. He was tough, but he was fair. He was he was fair to everybody and he just wanted it done right. If it was not to plan, fix the plans. So I didn’t have a problem with it. Anyway, so, I accept this invitation to talk about hardware, what it means within the code, and how it should work and I'm getting all these phone calls from people. Just random people I don’t even know. “You're going to be talking about this right?” “I really want to be there”. I’m like, okay, so, you know, I better invite some of my friends, so I invited a few of my competitor friends and gentlemen to come and help me talk about this cause it just smelled like it was growing. Well, this like six or eight person group group turned into like 500 people and this huge deal and we talked about, you know, what the code really means and who gets to choose what we're equals. Is it the salesman, is the inspector, is it the framer, is it the engineer on record? And of course, if you’re on record he really needs to be the one to at least sign off on these things if not being involved in choosing and a lot of the framers didn’t like that and they wanted to be able to just kind of wing ding whatever they wanted to do and I'm like, well, if push comes shove and you want to get the established loads in a catalog from a manufacturer, you’ve got to install it, right? And, short …inaudible… was a big problem back then and a lot of things. So that helped me grow. Those relationships with everybody in industry from the day laborer to the CEO, establishing relationships at all levels of folks, it really helped and it helped me too, because I got different levels of feedback and communication from people that really helped me improve what I do to this day. [31:08]
(JK) To this day I still appreciate those types of conversations.
(SM) You mentioned communication and email is not communication, that's sharing information. Communication being more, you know, at least, usually face to face, but it's amazing how, how different society is where if you were to call somebody on the phone and just say, “Hey”, it's like a humongous gift.
(JK) Yeah, people, they don’t call. They text now, they won't call us.
(SM) Yeah, I'm guilty of that.
(JK) Look, the phone works. Don’t send me 85 texts. Call me.
(SM) But that communication piece, like you said, it seems to have faded, right, with the advent of technology. Does it make it more important to do it?
(JK) Oh, for sure, without out of doubt. Especially, you know, gentlemen, you know, my age or older, they still really respect wanting to sit down and talk, look them in the eye, tell them what you can do, and then do it, you know, and then it makes a difference.
(SM) I have a couple more questions for you, John, and we're talking to John Kelly from the Kelly Design Group here on Strong Conversations for the Building the Brand series. You certainly built a brand, especially in that Las Vegas market, like we talked about. Talking about work now, what's your proudest moment in your professional career? To this point, other than being on our podcast.
(JK) God bless you. Well, that's what I would say its just some of the recognition that you know folks have for me, from contractors and builders. I can't tie that answer to like an award or something like that, but just to have been able to stay in business 20 to 25 years, let's say, that's probably my post accomplishments and then you know with all the ups and downs and the economy the last you know three or four years, something’s happening.
(SM) Sure.
(JK) And when I started my company you know it was 2001 you know we were in Iraq. You know things were crazy. I mean the towers were coming down and you know it was it was it was a crazy time and I just started my company. I’m like wow what's gonna happen, you know. So it's been a lot of ups and downs, but just keeping the faith, keep working hard and good things can happen.
(SM) I had a couple more questions for you John. One tied into what you just said, “what's gonna happen” right? And that was the question when you started. You're over 20 years in now. You've established yourself. Everyone knows who you are. For the most part in this industry, if I you’re
your name, people are like, "We know what that is." What's next? What do you see, if not for you, but for the industry? What's the next big thing? [33:51]
(JK) Well, I think for us, I'm going to just continue to grow my firm in the southwestern United States. I think the industry, I think panelization is going to continue to grow, off site construction. There's a couple of associations, one of which I belong to that promotes that type of thing. It's not new anymore. Hell Bill Pulty started the trend. You know he was one of the trendsetters 20 years ago or more, but I still think especially apartments and condos and things, I think off site construction, panelization, whatever term you want to use, I think that's going to be even more popular as we continue to need lower cost construction faster and we need to respond to the markets quicker, I think that's going to that's going to be more prevalent. Tiny homes are the hot thing now. You see them on all over the internet and companies are building them. I'm wouldn’t be surprised when a public builder starts building tiny homes….inaudible….So that, you know, that should be fun. Oh, the sky the limit, right? If you don't reach for the sky, you can't touch the stars.
(SM) Well, look, that is very profound, John. If you would say it again for me because I'm going to mess that up. If you don't reach for the sky, you can't touch the stars.
(JK) Yeah. You can never touch the stars. If you don't reach for the sky, you can't touch the stars.
(SM) All right. Well, speaking of stars, I'm just going to go ahead and skip to the most important question of the entire podcast, entire show, perhaps the entire week. We talked about, you know, we didn't touch on everything in your life, we talked about some pretty key moments in your life, from work as well as personal. You mentioned Tom Cruise and Top Gun, but if tomorrow, we're in Southern California right now recording this, we're in the entertainment capital world, tomorrow Hollywood calls and says, "John Kelly, we're gonna make a movie about your life." Who's playing you in the movie and what current movie best describes your life and career.
(JK) Well, I don't know. I always like maybe Mark Walberg or Kevin Costner ….inaudible…
(SM)Maybe Kevin Costner or Mark, maybe together. John Kelly's too much for one actor.
(JK) I don't know we'll see um I don't know I mean it's that's kind of a tough question. I mean, I identify with Top Gun a lot, of course, given that my military, as a military brat, I identify with that a lot. Overcoming challenges, you know. Current movies right now.
(SM) Ill accept Top Gun. By, current, I just meant things that were made.
(JK) Well, okay, well, yeah, well, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of metaphorical parts of the movie that would probably model my life fairly well and if that could be me that that would be amazing.
(SM) Well, the maverick of the structural engineering world, Mr. John Kelly, thank you very much for being here on the show and thank you all for joining us. Stay tuned for more Strong Conversations, Building the Brand series, coming soon.
(JV). Alright. Thanks.
[37:01]
END: JOHN KELLY