Welcome to a brand-new season of Strong Conversations—Building the Brand! This season, we’re spotlighting the entrepreneurs and leaders shaping the building industry, uncovering the grit, determination, and passion behind successful brands. Together, we’ll explore what it takes to grow a bold idea into a thriving business while fostering a culture where employees and innovation can flourish. Episode 1: We Really Don’t Say No We’re kicking off the Building the Brand season with “We Really Don’t Say No,” featuring Jeff Moran, co-founder and manager of RebatePros. When a friend and colleague presented him with the challenge of simplifying manufacturer rebates, Jeff embraced the opportunity and never looked back. That decision sparked the creation of RebatePros, a company driven by a clear mission: “Simplify the rebate process for homebuilders and product manufacturers while ensuring timely and accurate reporting, invoicing, and collection.” Join us as Jeff shares how his philosophy of saying “yes” transformed an idea into a thriving brand.
strong_conversations_-_jeff_moran
0:08
Welcome to Strong Conversations, hosted by Simpson Strong Time, where we bring partners, colleagues, innovators, and leaders together for insightful conversations.
0:19
We dive into the subjects and issues that we all face, forging stronger connections and relationships along the way.
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In our Building the Brand series, we talk to leaders and entrepreneurs in the building industry about what it takes to start a venture or business and build it into a brand.
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We talk about taking a chance in yourself and the determination and resilience that it takes to stay the course.
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Our guests share with us what it means to be a heart LED leader and the importance of not just building the brand, but building a culture that your employees can thrive in.
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We kick off the Building the Brand series with We Really Don't Say No with Jeff Moran, Co founder and manager of Rebate Pros Jeff didn't say no when a friend and colleague asked him to figure out a simpler and better way to manage manufacturer rebates.
1:13
And with that simple approach of just not saying no, Jeff and his partners built a technology company with a single mission in mind.
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Simplify the rebate process for home builders and product manufacturers.
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Ensure timely and accurate product usage reporting, invoicing, and collection.
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Listen to how Jeff built his brand.
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All right, welcome back to another edition of the Strong Conversations podcast.
1:45
I am Sam Marcou and we're doing the Building the Brand series on this series of podcasts.
1:50
My guests at this time is Mr.
1:52
Jeff Moran.
1:53
Jeff, how are you doing?
1:54
Great.
1:54
Glad to be here.
1:55
I'm glad you're here now.
1:58
A week ago from this recording, we did not know each other.
2:02
You did not know my name.
2:03
I did not know your name.
2:04
We did not know that we existed on this earth together.
2:09
Simultaneously, however, we are calling on the same customers.
2:12
We're in the same industry.
2:14
And when do you know it?
2:15
A mutual friend puts together the the dreaded group text and says Jeff, Sam, Sam, Jeff, you guys need to get on the phone and talk this out and we need to have a podcast between the two.
2:27
Rather random, but yeah, I was OK What we what do we got going on?
2:31
It was Yeah.
2:31
And I told you, I need 30 minutes of your time just to kind of figure out who you are and get my bearings straight for this podcast.
2:36
In about an hour into that 30 minute conversation, we finally had to part ways because it was so fascinating.
2:41
I couldn't get off the phone with you.
2:43
It was remarkable to hear your story, which we're going to talk about here today, and some of the lessons learned.
2:48
But for the uninitiated for if there is anybody else out there that doesn't know who Jeff Moran is, like I did not, what do you do in this industry currently?
2:59
You know, I've been doing a software product and it's called rebate pros and I was Co founder of that with my partner Scott.
3:05
And he's just, he's been a, a great partner going on through this.
3:08
And we focus on providing, you know, rebate management solutions for manufacturers and home builders.
3:18
And we, we didn't even know that industry or I didn't, my partner Scott did.
3:22
He was like when I came with the idea and I was not even familiar that there was, you know, manufacturers providing rebates and it's a great model.
3:31
It's, you know, manufacturers wanting to grow their brand and and show their wares.
3:36
And then you've got the builder on the other side who's, you know, committing to those brands and, and really getting behind the brand, putting those products in the homes.
3:45
And there's just that reward factor and loyalty factor in in that incentive that helps them and that relationship stay together.
3:53
And we're just helping manage that from a software perspective because there's a lot of calculations going on.
3:59
So when did you guys found rebate pros?
4:02
It was in early 2015, I'd say spring at 2015.
4:06
OK, so we're coming up on the 10 year anniversary of you getting a phone call from a former customer as I understand it.
4:11
And you're saying, yeah, I can help you out with this little tiny project.
4:14
And here you are almost a decade later still running.
4:17
Yeah, it was, it was.
4:18
So I was doing a software product in the home building industry before and I had just sold it.
4:23
And Scott calls thinking I was still actually a part of that.
4:28
And he's like, Hey, you know, we need your help.
4:31
We have this problem with rebates.
4:33
It's, it's a lot of workload.
4:34
There's so many different programs and calculations and we, we think software can solve this instead of having a team of people with Excel spreadsheets doing it in our office.
4:42
And I'm like, Scott, I just sold it.
4:45
I, I don't have that anymore.
4:46
And he's like, well, I knew you're the creator behind the first entity.
4:50
I think you could solve this.
4:51
Can you just meet me for lunch?
4:54
Scott?
4:55
I I'm kind of looking at doing something else right now, but OK, let me see what I can do to help you out.
4:59
And we went to lunch and I kind of sidebarred what I was going to do for a bit.
5:05
And I'm still sidebar and we're still doing this to this day, almost 10 years later.
5:10
So it's been a fun ride.
5:11
You're on your side quest still.
5:12
Yeah, from the main story, from the main, you know what I was planning on doing.
5:16
But it's, it's such a fun ride and it's so fun to stay in the industry and it's just such a great group of people and, you know, on all sides, manufacturer side, builder side, and just kind of everybody in between.
5:26
It's just a, the great relationships.
5:28
But it's fascinating to hear your story too, Jeff, because I, I have this theory and I've been proven wrong a few times.
5:34
It happens.
5:35
But for the most part, there's two people, there's two types of people that get into this industry.
5:39
A you're born into it, right?
5:41
Your mother, your father, your aunt, your uncle, your brother, your sister, somebody was in the construction industry and you are following in those footsteps or the path that I took.
5:50
And a lot of a lot of people that I, you know, and I, I would put you into this category as well, is you sort of fall into it like you don't, you know, no, no child for the most part when they're doing that.
6:00
What do I want to be when I grow up?
6:02
They're never like, why?
6:03
I hope I'm going to sell software in the construction industry or I hope I sell hardware in the construction industry like I do.
6:09
That just, that's not a conversation that enters the classroom.
6:12
You know, you want to be a rock star or baseball player or something like that.
6:16
That's something.
6:17
Yeah.
6:17
But you're never going to be the, you know, I'm going to have A and it's a wonderful, rewarding career, but it's one of those things that people just don't really plan to get into.
6:24
Now there are exceptions to that, but for the most part, this was not your goal as a, as a child, nowhere near what did, what did you want to be growing up?
6:33
You know, I was, I, I gripped the beach.
6:36
And so I, that was just wanted to be in the surf industry.
6:39
I love being in that space and was kind of even going through college, you know, wanting to do that.
6:44
And my dad, he, he's it was been in the meat industry for forever.
6:49
And his actually his father started a little butcher shop in like 1936 or something like that.
6:55
And then my dad got into it and he didn't like hopping the counter either.
7:00
He was not into the butcher shop thing, but he, he just, you know, my grandfather always said there was a clock on the wall and he goes, you know what, nobody's ever going to steal that clock because you guys just keep looking at it so they can check out, you know.
7:13
So anyway, I'm, I'm deviating a little bit, but he, when I was in school, he's like, hey, you know, come work for the family business.
7:20
I, I don't know, man, that's just not for me.
7:23
I really want to do what I want to do and right as I graduated and I'm like, you know, interviewing for jobs.
7:28
He, he, he come meet me for lunch.
7:31
Let's go.
7:31
Let me just show you what, what life could be like doing this.
7:33
And so he suckered me and he said, you can even bring a couple of your buddies from college and you, you know, they can come work at the.
7:38
At this point, it had now become one of the largest ground beef producers in the country, actually, like whether it was, you know, for fast foods or, or retail casual dining.
7:50
But we were one of the largest ground beef hamburger Patty producers and at that time.
7:56
So he had grown it, you know, really big.
7:58
And I'll hardly check it out.
8:00
And it'll be kind of a neat lifestyle.
8:01
And then I would start in like 99.
8:04
And I was a little bit of a goof off.
8:06
And, you know, he dragged me into the sales side.
8:09
You know what, this isn't so bad.
8:10
This is kind of cool.
8:11
And then they ended up selling it.
8:14
I'm like, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?
8:17
And it's like, I don't really got to figure it out, but you know, I'm pulling my chips off the table and you find something.
8:23
And it was, I had a neighbor that was in the building industry, a large land developer and you know, they were selling their finished land to home builders and he just a next door neighbor and we're in the backyard and I was just like, man, these we had just both bought new homes and they kind of have you move in.
8:43
It's like all the manuals are in the, in the drawers.
8:45
And I was like, man, I, I, the garage door operator's not paired up with a remote.
8:50
And where's all the manuals?
8:51
And how do you, what do you handle all this stuff anyway?
8:54
Like we need a system that just kind of does that all.
8:57
And how do we take this whole dwelling and make it alive and just send you a text message or all the maintenance you need to do and all the parts you might need, whether it's like filtration cartridges for the refrigerator.
9:07
How do we do that?
9:08
And he goes, if you come up with this, I'll put it in and I'll have all the builders put it in on at least in the homes that we build here on the ranch, really go for it.
9:19
And so that's how I started into the industry.
9:22
It was, it was a kind of a random ideas that create was a product called dwelling live back then that we created.
9:28
And it was, you know, turning your home into a full like maintenance online and text message.
9:34
It's kind of fun.
9:35
I think it's a fantastic idea and one that we're going to jump a little bit further into, but I've I've, I've already caught something here.
9:41
So you start rebate pros with Scott after Scott takes you to lunch.
9:45
You have no interest in going into the family business until dad takes you to lunch.
9:49
You got to stop taking this lunch pop.
9:51
They should catch you in this career path in different ways.
9:56
But so I, I want to go back to the family business here.
9:59
You said your grandfather started with butcher shops, a little 11 little butcher shop and I think like Alhambra, CA or something like that.
10:07
I mean little tiny thing.
10:09
And my dad and my uncle hop the counter and they just did not like, you know, chopping up meats like that.
10:16
What does that mean?
10:16
Hop the counter?
10:17
It's like literally a butcher shop.
10:18
Like literally, you know, the meat set and somebody walks in and takes, you know, have a, you know, rib eye steak or 1 of this and two of these and they're literally cutting it up.
10:28
And what ended up happening was my dad had, I think it was like some friends or some other guys that were starting restaurants and he went to them and goes look at instead of you guys grinding, you know, buying ground beef and packing patties all day, why don't you let us pre make the patties for you and we'll deliver you fresh hamburger patties every morning so you don't have to make them.
10:50
That's brilliant.
10:51
And then that started to grow and grow out the back door.
10:55
And then and it grew so much.
10:57
And then my, my grandfather had died when my dad and uncle were really young.
11:00
And they're like, you know, let's just close the butcher shop down a little retail store.
11:05
Let's just focus on let's get a facility and make hamburger patties.
11:09
And then they start, you know, started getting more and more restaurants and fast foods and pretty much it got to the point where you couldn't eat a hamburger West of the Mississippi if it didn't come from our facility.
11:21
Other than a, you know, a few other majors that were out there, But it was pretty, pretty solid, pretty solid program.
11:27
That's pretty cool because like I, I can drive around certain neighborhoods and know that I had a hand in that building going up right mid Risewood construction houses, whatever and go OK, I, I was a part of that.
11:37
I walked on that job or people live in that house, and I had AI had, you know, a small part of that house being built.
11:43
But what you just said brought a smile to my face.
11:45
I can imagine you're sitting at a restaurant somewhere and you're watching somebody eat a burger and just enjoy themselves.
11:50
And you're like, you're welcome.
11:51
Yeah.
11:51
Well, I don't, I know about that.
11:53
But I mean, yeah, it's neat to see that.
11:54
And I'm just glad that they're enjoying it.
11:56
And we literally, we truly focused on wholesome products and we.
11:59
I mean, I this pretty funny, one of the brands that we used to produce also was like the, the, the meat for Del Taco, OK.
12:08
And it's, you know, we would produce in these big vats and if the plant smelled so good with the onions and the seasoning and I would literally be bringing tortillas like just like to work And right off the line.
12:19
I'm just, you got it going down for lunch and, you know, grab some of these things or we'll be cooking, you know, burgers for like, you know, the Wendy's square patties or the, you know, Burger King wok burgers or the $6 burger for Carl's Junior.
12:31
It's it was a pre a pre cooked burger.
12:34
That was our first pre cooked burger because it would go through the Miko boiler and a raw Patty would come out perfectly 165° at the other end, but the larger Patty would be still not fully cooked.
12:47
So we pre cooked cooked it and then it got warm, warmed up all the way through and it was just so fun.
12:53
So you just kind of bring your kind of condiments to work and grab stuff off the line.
12:57
And we had all the grills that matched all of our customers.
13:00
So we could always test how the product you could just make all the customers meals and kind of like test it out right down in the kitchen.
13:06
It was so fun and it so was pretty cool to do that.
13:09
So this is this is where like my head sort of like exploded the other day when we're on our hour long conversation that was supposed to be 30 minutes because the family industry is, is meat, like butcher shop.
13:21
And then you get into ground beef and you guys grow it to this monster along with some other partners that came along the way that they worked with.
13:29
There's other families involved.
13:30
But yeah, but you're a software guy.
13:32
You're the software guy.
13:34
Not but intended.
13:36
I just kind of got into that somehow.
13:38
So how did you get into it?
13:40
Because you, you told me this story and I, it, it, it kind of blew me away that it was this sort of simple, I guess on how you've kind of went in this, in this software.
13:50
So wanting to be in the surf industry, you know, you kind of learn those little programs like Photoshop or Illustrator.
13:56
And so it's kind of in the design space a little bit, but not software per SE.
14:01
You're just using applications that are off the shelf.
14:03
And we're going, I'm helping my dad out.
14:06
He's got his customer and we were big on the retail space.
14:10
So retail grocery stores, we sold all that, you know, chubs and frozen patties and different packages of ground beef.
14:15
And they have the sets, which would be the meat counter sets.
14:19
So not necessarily what's behind the butcher block, right?
14:22
Kind of the self-service case.
14:24
And so they're all the different brands are there.
14:26
And he, you know, his college time buddy and maybe I think since grammar school was a photographer.
14:32
And so he brought him along to like help take photos of the store sets.
14:38
So they would take a store, this whole thing would get shut down.
14:41
They would get everything perfect how they wanted it to be.
14:43
All, you know, whether it's all, you know, the chicken and the sushi, like the whole thing's set up and they take photos and then they reverse it to take photos the other way 'cause some stores are like a left flow or right flow.
14:55
And I'm just watching all this go along and the, the whole store's kind of shut down.
14:59
There's they're taking so much time and then they find out that they missed a couple products.
15:03
They didn't stick it in the set and they're going to have to go do this whole reshoot again.
15:08
I'm like, guys, just get me some butcher paper.
15:10
Let's put the product right on the floor.
15:12
I'll take a picture and I can just Photoshop it in like we don't need to take this whole store down again for hours.
15:18
Like what?
15:19
OK, Photoshop what?
15:21
They really didn't know and they didn't think much about it.
15:23
And so then so like, OK, so we did that for a little bit and then I'm like, let's go for this next set.
15:30
Let's not deal with that whole store set.
15:32
Why don't we just take every picture of each product and just do it all through software?
15:37
And there were other planograming software products out there, but they didn't deal with random weight item.
15:43
So like a box of cereal or a can of soup, whatever.
15:46
That's very specific sizes where you might have random weight where like a like steak or ground beef, it changes weight.
15:54
It could be a full pound or a pound and a quarter pound of whatever it might be.
15:58
So they didn't have software that could handle random weight.
16:00
So we kind of took those other software products, added a little bit of element and got into the software space and added some more to it.
16:08
And then then we kind of create our own distribution of these planograms online.
16:14
So the meat managers could access, you know their set.
16:18
It's a 65 foot set, not a 45 foot set or whatever it be in which flow.
16:22
And so then that's kind of how it all started.
16:24
And then we just started building.
16:26
It's a product we called M2 and it just took off for that space for distributing all the like pricing, advertising products, planograms.
16:37
And then it was kind of the center point for all the kind of the meat and protein suppliers for what they're set and what they need it to be.
16:45
And then we don't like mobile solutions for checking on the sets as well.
16:48
And and this is the part that I think what makes you unique, Jeff, and that is you, you didn't go to school to be a computer programmer or develop software or anything like that.
17:02
You know, self admitted beach guy.
17:04
You wanted to be a surfer.
17:06
Yeah, we didn't.
17:06
Just glad the cameras aren't looking under the table.
17:08
I do have sandals on right now.
17:09
You do have sandals.
17:10
I wasn't going to say it, but if you're looking right now, if you're watching the video feed, he is absolutely wearing sandals right now.
17:16
Now, so I'm just, I'm like almost at a loss for words like how do you teach yourself how to do like Photoshop?
17:24
You can tinker around and start to get better, but you're talking late 90s, early 2000's.
17:29
The internet's there, but it's not what it is today in terms of Google and YouTube University and all those things where you can teach yourself in the moment.
17:35
You have to just figure it out.
17:36
You too.
17:37
And I and I really never got to like where I was coding the software.
17:41
I guess the way we can look at it, almost like in the building industry, you maybe have an architect that'll design the house, but then you maybe have the contractor, right, who's actually going to, you know, hammer things through.
17:53
And that's kind of where I would be more of the design level.
17:55
So work on every page what it's to do, what it's to look like, how is this going to solve the customer's problem?
18:02
And how like, let's make sure we check all those boxes.
18:04
And then I in turn work hand in hand with the development team to make sure everyday that this is weird, you know, achieving what we need the product to do.
18:12
So I'm not actually writing the code, so I didn't have to learn that level.
18:15
That is very detailed end of so much respect to those teams that they see the architect of the software.
18:22
And then maybe you got the structural engineer on your side to make sure everything's going to work.
18:26
And then obviously the execution team of the contractors.
18:29
So, so walk me through this late 90s, you figure this out.
18:32
I mean, they're shutting down the store, Jeff, to take pictures of meat for a planogram and you're like, there's a better way to do this.
18:38
I can solve this problem for you.
18:40
Very similar to how I think your father solved the problem for a lot of these restaurants.
18:44
You know, the generation before we can take care of this for you.
18:47
Very customer focused, very driven of we have a service that you're going to want.
18:52
Now there's a theme there which we're going to get back to you because when we started talking about the lessons you've learned and how you become successful in this space, we're going to talk about that.
18:59
But let's let's Fast forward a little bit to 2006.
19:03
So late 90s, you're you're jumping into this.
19:05
You're, you're, you know, your passion wasn't necessarily to go into the family business, but you found an Ave.
19:10
through software to maybe do a passion and enjoy it.
19:13
And in 2006, like you said, your father says, Hey, I'm, I'm cashing out.
19:18
We're we're, we're selling our part of the business.
19:20
We're walking away from this and that's when you had to go, all right, now what do I do now?
19:25
What?
19:25
And so and that software was going to stay with the IT was kind of more of the the merchandising arm and it really helped the company.
19:35
So that kind of needed to stay with that.
19:37
So that which was fine, but is you got you got to figure out the next chapter in life and I have no idea what I want to do.
19:42
So that's where I'd run into my neighbor and he said, you know what, give this thing a go.
19:48
And luckily when we sold the meat company, there was a two year transition.
19:54
So I had two years to get something up and running.
19:57
And so I'm like, OK, that's a, that's a decent amount of runway.
19:59
I should be able to pull this off, I hope.
20:02
And and so that's when we started dwelling live and got that thing up and running.
20:07
I think that's a brilliant idea.
20:08
By the way, we're talking about this.
20:09
So for those that maybe don't know what dwelling live is, I'm going to try to explain it in my layman's terms here, but you kind of use this.
20:15
Analogy of you, you get into your car and the check engine light comes on, or you're running out of gas, the gas lights going to come on.
20:22
It's telling you what you need to do as the owner or driver of that car for basic maintenance, right?
20:30
But when you buy a house, you get manuals, you get pieces of paper that like you said, you, you shove it in the drawer because you're never going to look at it.
20:38
And then you buy a new silverware for that new house and you take it out of the drawer and you put it in the garage.
20:42
And you never actually look at any of your manuals on what you're supposed to do and how often you're supposed to do it.
20:47
Air filters, things for the refrigerator, things like that.
20:49
So you created a software which effectively becomes that dashboard for your home.
20:56
And it'll tell you, OK, you now need to replace this or clean that and do all these things to make sure that as a homeowner you are maintaining everything in your home that you are supposed to be maintaining.
21:07
Exactly right.
21:07
And imagine if you if the car didn't have that right and you drove it 50,000 miles or whatever before, you know, the car just implodes and you take it to the dealer and you're like, why is it smoking?
21:18
They're like, didn't you read all the manuals in the glove box?
21:21
You're like, no, that's why they have that dashboard, right?
21:23
Well, same thing with the builders.
21:25
Homeowners were coming to the builder and they had all these warranty kind of uncomfortable, you know, situations.
21:32
We're just there to try to help mitigate risk for the builders.
21:34
So they've well educated the home owner on what's their responsibility and there's no surprises anymore.
21:39
They both have a great relationship of, OK, here's what I need to do and then and then this is what the falls on the builder if there ever is a warranty issue.
21:47
And that way the homeowners just knows exactly what they need to do to maintain that that home.
21:51
There's a lot of systems and the builder is protected as well because you now have this system where the homeowner, look, this is what you're responsible for and we can make sure that you are well aware of it, right?
22:00
It's not just sitting in a manual here.
22:02
And to your point, if the car didn't have the dashboard, you know how many cars I would drive 300 to 400 miles and then I would just abandoned it on the side of the road.
22:09
So like it just broke.
22:10
I don't know what's happening.
22:11
And then I would just call an Uber and move on from there.
22:13
So it's important.
22:15
And, and what's again, unique about you in this space is that what have you, have you done 5 different pieces of software that you have developed in your career?
22:24
Is that right?
22:25
Well, maybe a few more.
22:27
So there was the M2 had a few products.
22:30
It was like M2 Access M2 mobile was like mobile products.
22:35
And then when I went into dwelling live, we created so dwelling live, which was actually for the home side, right?
22:42
Then when there was a little bit of a downturn in the industry in O 8, a lot of us remember that that was pretty, pretty scary.
22:48
We needed still to create income.
22:50
So then we jumped in the community space.
22:52
And so we created Dwelling Life Community, which was, you know, transponders, visitor access, gate access control, like tennis court, reservations, community website stuff, license plate recognition software.
23:05
So we did all that.
23:06
And then we also created homeownermanuals.com, which was a small manual product for more small builders, maybe 10 homes or less where Dwelling Live was, let's say 10 homes to, you know, large builders.
23:20
It's just a system that comes with the house.
23:23
And then we also had a security product called Patrol Live where it's a mobile app that was kind of a similar to the, the food merchandising side is a kind of a repeat of that.
23:33
But in the security space now, was it that one or the community one that really took off for you in terms of dwelling?
23:38
The community swelling live really, really took off.
23:41
That was we, we focused on taking visitor management for where there's manned or guarded gates and that's where the focus was.
23:51
And then we, you know, got into all like the access control, like key fobs and the transponder systems.
23:58
And then we rolled that through distribution, through gate access companies and then they had installers.
24:04
And so that's when it really grew.
24:06
And there was a company that kind of took us under their wing for a while called Liftmaster.
24:10
They create their main brand is Chamberlain and they were fantastic company.
24:18
And but they make gate arms like the motors that when you know, make a gate arm go up or swing the gates open.
24:23
So we were controlling our software would tell the gates to open.
24:27
And then they kind of were like, wow, your software's telling our gates when did fire open let's, you know, talk.
24:34
And so then they kind of really promoted the dwelling live product across the country.
24:38
So that was really a great relationship with them as well.
24:41
They were a great partner.
24:42
And that software has developed again, you, you being the architect, you've got folks that you're working with that are making sure that it's running, you know, day, day and night.
24:50
But what was the, I guess, feedback or what was the impact from potential customers?
24:57
Were they giving you ideas to say, yes, this is good, but if we did it this way, it would be better?
25:02
I mean, did you have a lot of interaction with the that's, I think just the life of software?
25:06
I mean, every time you come out and you, you bring a, you know, product out there, you're going to just get a ton of feedback and you just want to soak that in as fast as you can.
25:14
Some of it you, you might be able to achieve, some of you might not be that's software is is like Disneyland.
25:20
It will never be done.
25:22
You just keep building and changing and adapting and you just you, what does the customer want and how do we, you know, how do we keep building?
25:30
You know, so there's always a new ride or there's a new feature.
25:33
There's I love that question on Walt Disney quote.
25:36
You know, Disneyland will never be done, right?
25:38
It's the case and that's what you kind of feel like with each software product.
25:41
It'll never be done.
25:42
Same with rebate pros to this day.
25:43
Yeah, we're going to.
25:44
I want to get into that too, because rebate rebate pros is, is, you know, I think the tie that binds us all together in terms of everyone listening to this or watching this right now.
25:52
However, you don't think of software development as being a creative.
25:57
What's the exception of a few big names that we know of?
25:59
But what does that creative process look like for you?
26:02
Are you constantly thinking about of ways to enhance your creations?
26:07
Or is it like, you know, oh, you know what?
26:09
I have to sit down and force myself for three hours to really work something out.
26:14
Or is it like a bolt of lightning, like, Oh my gosh, I figured out what we need to do next.
26:17
How does that work for you?
26:18
I think for me, I always live and breathe it.
26:25
I truly enjoy it.
26:27
I would have never thought I would.
26:28
I literally like, I kind of wake up.
26:31
I'm like, OK, how do we make this better?
26:34
And I it's like they say, sometimes it's not work anymore for me.
26:38
It's just, it's not I maybe I'm a, you know, kind of a geek.
26:42
I guess it's core.
26:44
I say passionate, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's fun.
26:48
I love doing it.
26:49
And and so that's where and you just, you want to, I guess, you know, my family, my dad, he always taught me like customers the most important.
26:58
And I literally saw him live and breathe that in every step in interaction with the customers that we worked with.
27:06
And I just like that.
27:08
And that's what's just built the best relationships.
27:10
And so when you have a software product, you just, you want to listen your open ears.
27:14
How can we make it better?
27:15
What could we do?
27:17
And it's fun to solve the problem, you know, because usually they're bringing an issue.
27:22
Hey, we have this problem, we need it.
27:23
How can you help?
27:24
Well, let us, you know, get this on the white board.
27:27
Let's do this.
27:27
And it's you're, it's just a problem you enjoy solving.
27:30
So it's fun.
27:31
Let's talk about those those problems that you've solved over the years.
27:33
So again, we're we're we're talking to Jeff Moran from rebate pros Co founder, along with his partner Scott, who Scott had the initial idea for us, right?
27:40
So you and Scott get together.
27:43
He, he, he, he presents a problem that he thinks you can solve.
27:47
It's like an old Vanilla Ice and a lyric.
27:49
If you got a problem, yo, I'll solve it.
27:52
If you know the next part of that, you're singing it to yourself right now.
27:55
Now, that was 10 years ago.
27:59
When do you go tomorrow?
28:00
How, how?
28:01
From that first conversation until you have something that you are ready to present to a builder.
28:06
What's that time frame?
28:08
Well, the first thing that we did is I kind of wanted to validate that it wasn't just his problem.
28:14
So I go, Scott, let's go meet with a few other industry builders and say if this existed, what do you think?
28:22
Like just from a discussion standpoint.
28:24
But yeah, you know, we we have this problem too.
28:26
OK, great.
28:27
So now we know that there's multiple people with a shared problem.
28:31
So let's partner up and let's go tackle this.
28:34
Then you kind of go into more of a storyboarding a little bit almost, we call it like vaporware a little bit where it's almost like slide presentations.
28:42
There's no functioning buttons.
28:44
And you kind of do one more round of that.
28:47
And that that might just take a couple months just to kind of work through how you want things to work and present that back to your initial kind of builders we talked to.
28:56
And then Yep, that's on point.
28:58
I can see how that would work.
28:59
And then I would say within about six months to 8 months, we've got an up and running product.
29:05
It's been pretty fleshed out, but very first generation, yeah, don't know all the things that people are going to need once they get to one thing, they're like, oh, well, we also needed to do this and really want this.
29:16
And you're trying to pick your battles and little game of whack a mole, right, of which ones to pick first And and then you just keep going from there.
29:23
And so I'd say 6 to 8 months from start to really having something we could get our first customer on board with.
29:30
So Speaking of your first customers, yes, I think a lot of times the conventional wisdom is let's start small, like you said, let's get a concept let's get proof of concept and let's go to these smaller companies, work out the kinks and we'll work our way up to those big boys yeah that wasn't you guys You guys want to have you guys took a big swing right off the bat right?
29:50
We we did but I I'm I'm going to kind of step back from that.
29:53
This is, I can't imagine this happened more than like once in a lifetime for me.
29:58
But so the fella that I talk to, that was my next door neighbor.
30:03
Yeah, he he was the one that helped dwelling life get off the ground.
30:09
And he, he he saw the idea that I had presented.
30:12
He's like, you know what?
30:13
I'll, I'll, I'll put my arms around this.
30:15
I'll quarterback this and let's get this going.
30:17
And he was also the same guy when the industry kind of took a turn.
30:20
He goes, you know what?
30:21
Why don't you look at getting into the community space and that'll least, you know, keep keep the boat afloat and come up with something and we'll help you get into communities.
30:32
And as a master plan developer, they are on the board of the communities for a a while and until completely transitions to the homeowner.
30:41
So they kind of can help out as to what vendors service.
30:44
Anyway, it's now let's say 2015.
30:48
You know, I had sold that one company and I'm in Starbucks in town and I see him in front of me and I go, you know, to the barista gala.
30:59
I went, hey, the least I can do is, you know, buy this guy his cup of coffee and he turns around.
31:04
He's like, Jeff, what's going on?
31:06
And nothing would get him caught up on like he goes, well, what are you doing now?
31:09
And I go, well, a buddy of mine, we're starting this new rebate product and we're just like kind of in the white boarding stages.
31:16
And he goes, you know what, I think we have an appointment about two weeks, see, in my office.
31:21
Let's get it scheduled.
31:22
He was our very first customer from eBay Pros.
31:25
So that was for the Irvine Company.
31:27
He was, he's just been an amazing partner of every product we've had or even helped me when the industry took a downturn.
31:35
They're like, just let's pivot for a little bit.
31:37
Let's focus on the community systems if if that's what you want to do.
31:41
And then when the market picks back up, we'll get the home dwelling live back in.
31:45
And so, and he was a customer for both of those sides of the products in the beginning.
31:50
And then when I ran into him after I'd sold it and he asked what am I doing?
31:54
I said, well, I'm, I'm just starting this up.
31:56
And he's just, like, gonna see you in my office about two weeks.
31:59
You're gonna show me what this is all about.
32:00
Let's get you going.
32:01
That's fantastic.
32:02
OK.
32:04
I love you, man.
32:05
What?
32:05
How does this happen?
32:06
Go to lunch with that guy.
32:07
Yeah.
32:07
Yeah.
32:08
It's amazing.
32:09
So first customer aside, we were talking, I mean, we're, let's just name names.
32:14
I mean, you guys go after and start meeting with the Dr.
32:16
Hortons of the world, right?
32:17
The Lennars of the world.
32:18
These are big, big builders.
32:19
These are, you know, massive entities and you're showing them what you guys have.
32:25
Do they buy in right away?
32:27
I wouldn't say right away.
32:28
I mean, they, you know, I remember even Dr.
32:30
Horton, they saw it and they go, oh, we're, we're working on that right now.
32:34
We've been building it for about two years.
32:36
We, we think that's a great product that you have, but we're building it internally and that's usually what's been going on.
32:41
And I think they run into, you know, just some struggles or maybe they just didn't get the right angle and how to solve the problem.
32:50
And they would then come back and, and go, you know what, we're now on our, you know, fourth year trying to build this out.
32:57
Let's take another look at what you have.
32:59
And then they see it and they go, we don't know how you did it.
33:02
That's exactly what we were trying to build.
33:04
It's doing exactly what we needed to do, you know, and hey, we're so big, you think you can handle it.
33:08
Like, I think we got this, you know, and so then they would come on board and they have just been fantastic customers and it's great relationships working with them and they love the product and we love, you know, being their support team.
33:21
It, it's amazing too, because the phone call that I've referenced a couple times, there was a third person on that call, Tina Harrow, my colleague, and she made a comment that I actually wrote down, which is she said, you know, the, the, the best thing about rebate pros is that you guys never really say no.
33:37
You don't, you don't say no to people.
33:40
So it could be from the manufacturing side, it could be from the builder side.
33:43
If somebody has a problem or an idea, you guys aren't going to turn them away.
33:47
You're going to, you're going to legit think about it, figure out how to fix it or enhance it or whatever it is that you guys are going to do, but you don't say no.
33:56
No, I, it's, I think like, I guess it's fun to solve the problem.
33:59
So it's just like, it's just like, hey, let's, let's play a game.
34:02
I'm like, great, let's play the game.
34:03
Let's you know whether you know what it let's, it's fun.
34:05
And so that's why it's fun to solve that problem.
34:07
And that's why I don't like to say no, because it's just another thing to go chase and have fun with and do well.
34:12
And, and I think that's probably the key to your success.
34:14
I mean, I'm, I know there's a lot there and I am I'm going to ask you that specific question, but what is the thing?
34:20
You know, looking at your career and you're you're not dumb by any stretch of the imagination.
34:24
You just told us you you wake up and you're thinking about this, right?
34:27
It's kind of in your head, but what are you most proud of up to this point right now, other than being on this podcast, of course, I mean, what, what this is, what an honor.
34:36
This is it most proud of?
34:38
I think it's just sticking with it.
34:41
You know, there was some bumpy times, you know, especially when the home industry took a turn and, and when I mentioned the Irvine Company, they literally he called and said, Jeff, we're mothballing these communities.
34:52
We are not only moth like we are tearing down the models because they're a liability.
34:56
We don't even want them standing.
34:58
And I couldn't, I didn't even think that was something a builder would do.
35:01
And they're literally knocking down models to make it just because they know it's going to be a long time before the things turned around.
35:09
And just you know what, we know we like what we're doing, we like our product.
35:13
It's going to be tight for a while and just persevering through that.
35:17
And that was that I, I don't think is the hardest part in believing in what you think is the right product, you know, based on customer feedback, like, yeah, we want this product.
35:27
OK, I'm going to stay with it and keep keep chasing it.
35:31
You know, we've talked a little bit about your, your background in terms of being a beach guy.
35:36
You're wearing the flip flops.
35:37
You had a surf company, you wanted to be a surfer.
35:39
You know, we talked about this on the on the phone call as well.
35:41
But you know, I, I, I, I look at your career and it feels very much like you are a surfer in your business life.
35:49
It feels like you're always looking for that perfect wave and when you catch it, you're riding that thing until it's time to catch another wave.
35:55
And you've had success along the way.
35:58
You've caught some really good waves as, as you've gone through your, your career here.
36:02
I am curious though, any wipeouts, any, anything you would change if you could, if you could change one thing about your career journey without changing the outcome.
36:10
So you're still here today.
36:12
All the success that you've had up to this point still happens.
36:14
If you could change one thing throughout that journey, what would it be and why?
36:18
I think the one thing I would change the most is spending more time with the customer.
36:23
Actually, I, I'm more kind of behind the scenes, like I want to, you know, understand what the problem is, but then I'm kind of like an ostrich with my head and they're, you know, just kind of just let me fix it.
36:33
Let me feel me work in the office, let me kind of get this stuff done And I I look back on the meat relationships was more on the sales side of things and the relationships and just the camaraderie and the fun of being with everybody and doing all these things.
36:48
We're now I'm kind of more, you know, behind the scenes and Scott's more the show pony.
36:54
He's out there meeting with everybody and it's fun to do both.
36:58
I just wish I had spent more time with the customers.
37:00
I'm looking forward to getting back and doing that now that the, the product, it's not done right.
37:05
It's never done, but it's, it's, it's, it's there.
37:11
I mean, it's, it's a very impactful product and it's, you know, a lot of people in the industry are using it and I feel OK now I can spend time and enjoy time out with the customers and, and, you know, it's just so fun to be out there with everybody.
37:25
That's what I missed the most.
37:27
Couple of last questions here as we talked to Jeff Moran from Rebate Pros here on the strong conversations Building the Brand series.
37:33
People are listening to this right now.
37:35
They're feeling inspired, maybe somebody's picking this up and and they're thinking of maybe striking out on their own and doing their own business or joining with somebody to create something.
37:44
What's the advice?
37:45
What's one thing they should absolutely do and maybe something they should absolutely not do if they're going to go out and start to own their own piece of the pie?
37:52
OK, I think one, you've got to believe in what you're about to do.
37:56
Like in some, sometimes you get some negative comments along the way.
38:00
But if you truly believe in it.
38:02
And then I was at one party one time and all this and I met this older gentleman and, and he, he knew I had starting out.
38:09
This was the the dueling live era.
38:12
And it was probably one of the most key piece of advice he gave me.
38:16
He goes, you got to give everything that you start at least five years because I don't know why that number works.
38:24
He goes, but if you can give it and stay with it for five years, give yourself five years a runway because you'd be surprised what happens.
38:30
And sure enough, it's usually takes, you know, I, I only had two years on the first thing and, but realistically it, it mean it, it got pretty scary there for a bit, but that five year turning point and it just took off.
38:46
And I would say this, you know, the same thing.
38:49
Once you kind of get this, maybe it's a customer talent, the industry sees you or whatever it is.
38:53
And same thing with rebates.
38:55
Like we hit that five year mark and it really, really, really started to go well.
38:59
And so I think that's if you're going to start from something new, believe in it and give it five years.
39:06
And I think that will you'll see it's either a go, no go at that point.
39:10
That's great advice for everybody to listen to that.
39:11
You got to believe in it.
39:12
You got to stick with it for as long as you possibly can.
39:14
Five years minimum.
39:15
I say five years is a good runway to really to get to give it a chance.
39:20
All right, last question, Jeff, this might be the most important question of the entire podcast.
39:24
Can I run out now?
39:25
No, you can't run your flip flops.
39:27
You got to you got to walk or saunt it.
39:29
Now, if tomorrow we're we're down here in Southern California, we're in the entertainment capital of the world of the planet of the universe.
39:37
I would say, OK, depending on what you believe is out there, who is playing you in your life story?
39:45
If it gets turned into a movie or TV show, who is the actor that best represents?
39:48
Oh my gosh.
39:49
OK, that's a good one.
39:52
OK, well, I would think of it.
39:53
There's probably different movies for different times, but I'm just going to kind of look back on earlier part of this, I would say.
40:01
Chris Farley and Tommy boy, it was be like first time, like leaving college, going to work for the family business.
40:08
I mean I was just a goof.
40:10
Like everybody's looking at me at the office, like who is this clown?
40:13
You know now?
40:14
Is there not that there needed to be like that like turn around success story, not that part of the movie, but just this goofy guy at the family business.
40:22
You know, like, that's kind of what I, I would portray myself as like, wow, what an interesting time.
40:28
And then I'm sure there's different movies for different parts of my career, but that's my, probably my favorite is just being the oddball at the office.
40:35
Everybody's just like, who is this Turkey, you know, Tommy Callahan of the construction industry.
40:41
Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff Moran from Rebate Pros thank you so much for joining us here on Strong Conversations and thank you guys for joining us.
40:47
Stay tuned for more episodes of the Strong Conversations podcast coming soon.
41:10
Music.