In our "Born Into It" episode, Strong Conversations host Sam Marcoux talks to Andy and Breezy Mitchell of Mitchell Lumber Co., who took over the business as third-generation owners after Andy’s dad passed away. Andy and Breezy share what it means to them personally to carry on the Mitchell Lumber legacy for future generations. Guests: Andy and Breezy Mitchell, Owners, Mitchell Lumber Co
(SM) Welcome back to Strong Conversations, a podcast by Simpson Strong-Tie. I am Sam Marcoux, and on this series of podcasts, we are talking to the industry leaders on how they got where they are. Joining me on this specific episode, Andy and Breezy Mitchell from the Mitchell Lumber Company. How are you guys doing?
(AM) Great.
(BM) Great.
(AM) Great. Real good.
(SM) How long have you guys been awake? Because you guys flew in here to Nashville, which is where we're recording this right now, music capital of the world and you were not here yesterday.
And we saw you this morning, and I think you said you guys got to the hotel at five in the morning.
(AM) Yeah, I think when you saw us, we were on, two and a half hours….
(SM) So this….it's gonna be great. Two and a half hours asleep. We're gonna grip and rip there.
(BM) We’re good.
(SM) So what do you guys do for Mitchell Lumber? What do you guys….what titles do you guys have?
(AM) Owner. Owners. Partners.
(BM). Owner operators. That's what we've always said.
(AM) Titles are hard. For me, titles are hard because we do, you know, we're on track to do about 14 million this year and we do it with 30 people. We've always had this culture of everyone does everything.
(SM) Yeah.
(AM) As cliché as that may sound and I don't think that's unique in the lumber industry, especially in smaller independent coming up as “mom and pop lumber yard”.
(SM) Right.
(AM). But as we've grown our sales, it's become harder to instill that kind of culture in people because you have to have titles, right? That's how you keep workflow going and stuff like that.
[1:31]
(AM) So we just kind of go with owners. We tried them on and they don't normally stick because we do everything.
(SM) So who is the majority owner and the minority owner between this power couple here?
(BM) I’m the majority owner.
(SM) Majority owner. 51% of the company. I love that. So this is going to be fascinating for me because you guys are co-owners of the lumber company. I think third generation. Right?
(AM) Correct.
(SM) We're going to talk all about that because that's literally what we're here to do, right? How we got here. But you guys are also married. You have other interests, other things, other work outside of this industry and this business. We're going to touch on that as well. You guys have kids. I want to talk about that a little bit as well because I’m curious if there's going to be a fourth generation in the Mitchell Lumber Company ownership realm here. There's just so much going on here. I had a great conversation with you guys, kind of our pre-con, if you will, before we're sitting down here in Nashville. So I have so much to ask you guys here, but I guess we're I’ll start is how long have you guys been the owners? Tell everyone where Mitchell Lumber is.
(AM) It's Belfair, Washington, which, I don't know, in relation to the next closest thing is Bremerton,
Washington. There's a Naval Shipyard there. The Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. That’s a dart on the map but its…
(BM) It’s an hour away from and hour away from Olympia.
(SM) There you go. So Seattle's where…if you're not from Washington or the Pacific Northwest, we only know Seattle. Right? So an hour from Seattle. That's like me. I live in Livermore, California and everyone's like what's that and I’m like it's an hour from San Francisco.
(BM) So Belfair is really interesting. I mean we have starter homes, renters and then literally Bill Gates and the Nordstroms as well.
(SM) There you go. Do you guys have a Macy's there?
(BM) No. No, I mean like they live there.
(SM) Oh.
(BM) Yeah they have summer homes there.
[03:20]
(SM). Yeah I’m a big fan of Macy's. So you guys are in Washington, right outside of Seattle, about an hour outside of Seattle. How long have you guys been the owners?
(AM) 2020?
(BM) Officially 2020, but when his dad passed away in 2014 unexpectedly, he went back, and then I rejoined him in 2016, 2015. Okay. Yeah.
(SM) Okay, so let's, you mentioned your father. This whole Mitchell Empire, three generations, started with your grandfather, correct?
(AM) Correct, yeah.
(SM) Can you tell the story about how this got started?
(AM) So he got out of the military, served in Korea. He went into trade school and became a union plumber and , speaking of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, he did a lot of work there for, at the time, one of the big mechanical contractors. Worked his way up, became a superintendent eventually and did a lot of years there. So he was a plumber by trade. I think it was three or four business partners and friends, in 1968Ithink, bought some real estate in Silverdale which is about 20 minutes away from where our current location is.
(SM) Okay.
(AM) It was something like 12 or 13 acres and it was just like an investment thing for this group of people, but there was an existing lumber yard on this property and I’m not sure, you know, it was before my time, exactly how it all shook out, but the way it shook out was that my grandfather, Jim, ended up being the partner that ran the lumber yard. He must have bought the business and moved forward from there. Over the course of the next few decades, you know, they bought out the, you know, partners to where it whittled down to Grandpa and his friend Bill and they kind of were still the owners of the real estate until 80. I don't actually know what year they sold it, but they sold it to somebody, but they still had the lumber yard.
(SM) Okay.
(AM) In 1984, my grandfather had a heart attack, had to go into the hospital, quadruple bypass surgery and he kind of decided he was done. He's like, yeah, I don't want to work anymore, which is like pretty awesome because I think he was in his mid to late 40s at the time. He was like, yep, pulling the plug. No more work for me and actually we have it in the corporate records. I've got scans. I don't know if I have the original, but he signed over half the shares of the company at the
[06:02]
time to my dad, Jeff. It would have been his son and it’s actually on, was it Harrison Hospital at the time? It's on Harrison Hospital letterhead. It's like handwritten in my grandma's handwriting, half the shares gifted to Jeff Mitchell.
(SM) So your grandfather in the hospital, obviously big medical emergency decides, I don't want to do this anymore. Transfers, you said half? Half the shares to your father while in the hospital on hospital letterhead.
(AM) Yeah
(SM) That is amazing.
(AM) Yeah that's…I mean I didn't know that. I mean I kind of knew how it all went down but I didn't know this particular little piece of a background until after my dad died and I was sifting through corporate records trying to figure out what was going on and found it. I’m like well that's unique that's interesting.
(SM) Yeah that doesn't happen very often.
(AM) Yeah so…
(SM) Not even sure it's legally binding actually, but maybe it is.
(AM) I don't know how that's going to work I probably should have said that on a recording.
(SM) No you guys have lawyers you guys will figure it out.
(AM) We’ll be fine.
(SM) So in 1984 your father takes over his owner for all intents and purposes there. You were a wee lad at that point.
(AM) It was like three or four weeks before I was born.
(SM) Okay so that’s how it all went down.
(AM) I don’t know the exact dating, but it was like three or four weeks before or after or something like that. So.
(SM) So I didn't know that part of the story. So your grandfather is transferring ownership to your father who is expecting you within the month as well.
(AM) Yeah, I guess so. [07:20]
(SM) That’s pretty hectic, huh? You got a little amount of stress on the old man right there, new business, kid all that fun stuff. Wow. So you were quite literally born into this industry.
(AM) Yeah yes.
(SM) Right there's really like two paths that I can tell that people get into the building industry. One, they're born into it or, like me, you don't really have kids that aren't in this industry that are like I really hope I’m in the building materials.
(AM) Right, yeah.
(SM) You know I want to be in this industry as I grow up. This is not on that list of essay assignments that you have. You kind of stumble into it and then realize it's actually a really great industry. I think I'll stick around for a while, but you took the more of what I would say traditional path, which is family was there, quite literally born into it a month after your father takes ownership of the thing. So you grew up in the business, around it, probably, I’m sure, helping out as a kid at the lumber yard.
(AM) Yeah. I started working there. I show up on payroll. I show up on Social Security at 12 years old.
(SM) Oh, really?
(AM) Yeah. So pretty much.
(SM) Breezy, were you involved in the building materials industry prior to your involvement with Mitchell Lumber or was this… you kind of took the path that I took, which is, okay, now I’m here.
(BM) Yeah, so we were actually dating and I was working at Costco.
(SM) Okay.
(BM) And his dad was like, I want you come to Costa Rica with us for a family vacation and I couldn't get the time off and I was like oh I can't go, I can't get the time off and he's like well why don't you just quit and come work for me and so I was like 19 at the time I was like sure so I quit my job at Costco and I was learning how to calculate board feet on the way to Costa Rica and started at Mitchell Lumber when I got back.
(SM) That's an awesome onboarding program right there. Yeah, we're going to send you to Costa Rica and you'll learn the industry.
(AM) Right, yeah. [09:11]
(SM) So 19 years old is when you made your mark.
(BM) Yeah
(SM) I was the same. I was 19 when I joined into the construction industry. So I feel you in terms of still very young in life to all of a sudden I have all this responsibility. I have a big boy job for me anyways. I was like, what am I doing here? But cool. Okay, so.
(BM) A lot of learning on the job.
(SM) It's a lot of learning. And that's actually where I want to talk to you guys about because you guys are the owners now I mean obviously it's been in your family for a long time you come in at 19 years old learning how to measure board feet and everything else while on a on a on a Costa Rica vacation, taking over for your father who who unexpectedly passes away. I mean obviously dealing with a lot going on right at that point, right?
(AM) Yeah.
(SM) You have your own life. You're a firefighter, right?
(AM) Correct.
(SM) As well … you have your own maybe, did you expect to take over the Lumberyard? I guess I should ask that.
(AM) No, not at all, actually. You know, I'd done X amount of years, you know, sweeping floors at age 12, working up to learning how to drive forklifts at age 14, being a delivery driver. My dad sent me out on deliveries in our pickup trucks before I event had my license once or twice you know. You can't really do that.
(SM) You're admitting to a lot of stuff yeah on camera.
(AM) Yeah, sorry. Sorry Kevin, but you know so I had some time in the industry and I think it was about well it was you know recession, coming out of recession, my dad had property in kind of the next town south from us maybe a 30 40 minute drive from us that had been a lumberyard at one time and I was… we were expecting. Did I know that we were having a kid or I was just kind of trying to organize my life. Like I can't you know at this time was worked up to managing I believe kind of what you call the front end the sales store part of the business it's 23-ish 21 22 23 and I was like hey I wonder if I could start my own lumberyard and my dad kind of talked me through it. He's like well let's write up a business plan using this property, you know, it used to be a lumber yard, it's in sad shape, so kind of walked me through it, and I spent a lot of time writing it all down, coming
[11:26]
up with numbers based on what I knew from the kind of really the previous five years of lumber industry, which is not a great previous five years at this time. I think this was probably in 2010 when I was doing all this.
(BM) 2008.
(AM) Was it that far back? But either way, right? Like, not a great baseline. And I wrote it all down and I penciled it out for the rest of my life. I’m like, all right, well, here's my investment, here's what I got to make, here's when I'll pay it off, and then that's when I'll actually start putting money in my pocket. And I wrote it all down. And I’m like, oh, cool, I’m not going to make a dime for about 20 or 25 years. This is awesome.
(SM) This is exciting.
(AM) Yeah. So maybe that was my dad's whole idea with it because he had also, I don't, just like, you know, his dad hadn't envisioned him in the lumber industry. He didn't envision me in the lumber industry. He had kind of tried to push me in other directions and give me gentle nudges. So part of me is like, was this exercise his way of me doing the math and being like, yeah, this is a hard no. So that's when I decided I gotta get out of this. I don't wanna suffer like this for the next, you know because during the recession, we literally were turning off the lights in the warehouse to save money. We were lucky, luckier than a lot of other businesses because we didn't owe any money. We were a cash business, but it still stuck. Yeah. We all took pay cuts. And so that's when I said, oh, and he's like, well, go get like a union job or something.
I think he meant like carpenter's union. Right. Go pour concrete, machine operators, go work for Boeing or something like that. I chose firefighting. It seemed like a pretty good union job. I knew a few firefighters. They all seemed like they were having a pretty good time and had a good life and a good schedule. So that's when I branched out and said, yeah, I’m going to say goodbye to the building industry. So I went and did that. I still worked in the lumber yard here and there, covering him for his vacations, coming in weekends. You know, I still had some knowledge and then did odd jobs and eventually got hired on. And then in 2014, he just out of nowhere passed.
(BM) Yeah
(AM) And so I got, it was necessity.
(SM) Right.
(AM) I got to get back to this business and help my mom with it because she had been removed. She had something to do with the business, but 20, 25 years in the past. Sure. So I figure oh we'll get it marketed. We'll get it in order. We'll sell it. And I remember having a big meeting with the employees like a couple days after he passed and being very open, like some of you know me. I've been here before, but this is not what I’m doing. So let's get this thing in order and get it sold. [13:43]
(AM) I said we got six months or a year, we'll be here and then that was like 10 years ago. So obviously didn't stick to that plan, yeah.
(SM) So talk me through that time if you can, because you're I think we talked about this, your father passes away and how long until you're back at the lumber yard trying to make heads or tails of everything?
(AM) Ah, God, it was a Saturday?
(BM)I think it was the next day.
(AM) And I went in on, yeah, It was a weekend and I was there on Monday.
(SM) Wow.
(AM I thought, okay, you know, this will be good. I thought this will distract me, this will help me, you know, process and this is what has to happen. And I went in that Monday and it was evident to me within the first hour. I was like, nope, I need to take a week off. This place will be fine. And if it doesn't, who cares? Pretty traumatic time in my life. I was 29 years old, fairly young age to lose a parent, especially unexpectedly like that. So, you know, I took the week off, let it just be, and then came back the next week in full force and haven't really, and it was, you know, I'd managed people. I dispatched, I'd driven delivery trucks, I'd kind of done everything from sweeping floors up to really a personnel manager, but I had nothing to do with the back office. I didn't know anything about. I mean I knew about selling lumber. I love sales and I thought it was decent at sales and we had a lot of good customers that really were loyal to us and we were loyal to them. Really, really did enjoy that. But as far as making sure we don't go out of business or bankrupt, I didn't know a thing about it. Nothing, nothing, so.
(SM) So Breezy, did you come in at that point? Were you involved, When you guys were forced to be more involved, is that where you really started to take ownership, so to speak?
(BM) Well, I had exited in, gosh, probably 2010 when we had our second son, and I went back to nursing school.
(SM) Okay.
(BM) And so I was working as a nurse when his dad passed away. And then I came back 2015 so like a year and a half after his dad, or a year, I guess, after his dad passed away. It's all a fuzzy timeline then, to be honest. I got a call at home from our manager who said, our biggest supplier won't deliver to our yard today. And I was like, why not?
(AM) I was probably on shift like being a firefighter. [16:06]
(BM) Yeah, he was…and she was like, well, I guess we're not paying our bills. And so I gave her our personal credit card I said get it paid and we're coming in and so he came in and he actually had to let go of our controller that had been with Mitchell Lumber for like 25 years which was very hard and difficult because I had worked closely with him in the last few years and he just, we had the money, the bills just weren't getting paid and so we were in the office just clearing years, decades worth of piles of paper, just like throwing him into trash cans and I had decided, I at the time had our third kid and literally like on my back in a backpack carrier. And I was like, well, I'll come in and I’m a maternity leave. I'll come in and help figure this out. And then when my maternity leave's over, I’m going back to the hospital. And then I've always stayed. But it was learning how to do things backwards. Like, okay, I have an invoice for something and then just kind of trying to figure out the process. I literally had no idea what I was doing in the back office. I had helped file before and post things with receivables and payables, but I didn't know what a general ledger was. And so while we're cleaning the office, I’m underneath the desk, like, about to have a breakdown and I see…
(SM) Were you hiding or yeah you just like…
(BM) I was cleaning. Yeah I was cleaning and under the desk on the base board there was a business card that said Kyle Kincaid CPA and then in Andy's dad's handwriting it said call if you need help and I came up and I was like this is a sign we're going to call him because we need help.
(SM) Right.
(BM) And Andy was like, I called him when dad died and he's too busy he won't work with us and then I don't know Andy got pulled out to do somewhere and I just called him anyways and I told him the situation and he was like that's really terrible and I’m like yeah I know and I’m like can you please help us he's like no I can't I’m just so busy right now and I said can you give me one hour all I need is one hour so I just know where to start and he said okay I'll come out for one hour and he came out and he's just like this great knowledgeable guy. He's become like our biggest mentor in the industry. And he's just sitting there and he's like, his hands are going so fast on the 10 key. And he's like, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. It's really not that bad. And I’m like, okay, good. And he was like, I’m going to take you on as my, as a client. And so then from there he had come in, he had someone help me learn payables, receivables, the general ledger, and then he would come in monthly as well and make sure we were on track. And to this day now, if he says do something, we do it and we don't ask questions. He's never steered us wrong and it was literally, that was the turning point at Mitchell Lumber for us, was partnering with him.
(SM) That inflection point of, okay, we can do this and we can be successful. I just, for the listening audience, I don't want it to go unsaid that Breezy was in the back office going through decades of paperwork, mountains of it, while her third child is strapped to her back. I mean, talk about, you know, just getting in as owners and being hands-on, you have to, right? I mean, that's the only way it's going to get done. But that's just an amazing visual to, like, I don't bring my kids to work. And I would never, now they're too big. I couldn't put him on my back. But, no, that is incredible. [19:46]
(SM) And that story of finding that, well, underneath the desk, and originally Kyle's saying he can't help you guys. And then you also happen to be a pretty good salesperson. You get him there for the hour. He goes, no, you need my help, and I can help. And going from there. So that's amazing. So Kyle's been around, obviously, for at least a couple of generations.
(AM) Yeah, so in going through all the old corporate records that I could piece together, there was some corporate, you know, shareholder minutes, shareholder many minutes from, I don't know what year it was,but Kyle Kincaid's name was on the minutes as, you know, an attendee on the role. So the way Kyle tells it is that he graduated, got his CPA, and his first job was, and forgive me Kyle, if I’m getting this wrong, but his first job, I think, was for Mitchell Lumber, when it was my grandpa and dad back in the 80s.
(BM) I believe his office was above the lumber yard in Silverdale.
(AM) Yeah, well, maybe, that's news to me, but there's a lot of Mitchell Lumber lore that I've lost track of for sure, so.
(SM) Silverdale's the original location, right?
(AM) Correct, yeah, it's no longer there. It was a pretty neat old building, a neat location on the waterfront. It was pretty cool, but Kyle is also a lumber kid. His dad was a big part of the Northwest building industry, part of the WBMA, the Western Border Material Association. So he's in it for the same reason than I am, so it's in the blood.
(SM) So you guys had mentioned, you're gonna you were gonna clean it up and sell it yeah you're gonna we're gonna end our legacy you know we we we have to move on we have a nurse and a firefighter which by the way I’m gonna go hang out with you guys in Washington. I think I’m covered yeah with all health issues if I just hang out with you guys, but you didn't. Plans changed it's been a decade you're still here you're still the owners. Why didn't you sell it?
(AM) Oh we had, you know, we went out and I don't know if we really marketed it. We didn't use any brokers, but you know Kyle had a lot of connections and he knew what we wanted to do and he connected us with a few people that were maybe interested in acquiring the location or the business at least. It's not that it, I mean Breezy puts it best, but like if I had to put words on it they weren't … The business was much smaller than it is now, right?
(BM) There were good offers.
(AM) So the offers we were getting were like....
(BM) They were good offers, but at the end of the day, we were sitting in our lawyer's office, who's also our friend, and we were arguing over, like, a very small amount of money. [22:19]
(BM) And he was like, he finally was like, what is your problem? Why will you not take this deal? And we're like, Idon't know. Why, why aren't we? And then I’m like, do you want to sell it? And Andy was like, I don't know. And I’m like, well, then we shouldn't do it. And so then we had kind of committed to, okay, we're going to do Mitchell Lumber.
(SM) Wow.
(AM) Yeah, for me it was like a simple math equation. Here's the offer. And I’m like, well, I mean, 20, 30, 31 years old at the time. Like, that's not a life-changing amount of money.
(SM) Sure.
(AM) What if I just borrowed that much money. If that's what they're willing to put in, what if I put that in? Essentially is what it came down to for me. And I’m like, I'll just try it. What’s the worst that could happen. I'll put that same amount of money into this business and see where we can take it.
(BM) I think it's emotional too because it's been such a big part of Andy's family for so long and then, okay, now we are choosing to end this and so that's a big responsibility too.
(SM) Yeah. How did the staff take it when you said originally, hey, we're probably gonna part ways and then ultimately did not?
(AM) I never heard, you know, undersanding, I think everyone that talked to me was very understanding about it because most of the people that were there knew me from when I had been there before, you know, full time. And they understood, they got it. I was, you know, knew them, close with them. We were very small, I mean, there I mean there was maybe.
(BM) There was like 10 employees at that time. It was small.
(AM) There was like 10 employees at that time, maybe less. Seasonally we dropped to less than 10, so it was a very tight-knit group. I think they understood, yeah.
(SM) I know you said you’re up to 30 now, roughly? Yeah?
(BM) Yeah, so when his dad passed away, they weren't making, the sales weren't even 3 million a year and so it was just a very different business then.
(SM) Wow, So not only did you keep it, but you've grown it and giving people opportunities to work and either start their career or continue their career. I think that's just awesome. I love hearing that type of stuff. I do have some questions, though, because we talked a little bit about the children. How many children do you guys have three?
[24:22]
(AM) Three.
(SM) Three, yeah.
(SM) Okay, and you've got the age ranges are what?
(AM) 16-year-old boy, 14-year-old boy, and 9-year-old girl.
(SM) And if I remember correctly, because we were talking on the phone, I'd ask the question, do you see a fourth generation of ownership from Mitchell Lumber? And I believe, I think it was you, Andy, that said well, if anybody's going to do it, it's going to be our daughter, the nine-year-old.
(BM) Yeah.
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) So she has, they all have been there since they were born. I mean, we have pictures of them on the nail scale when they were little, but she really, I mean, she was there every day since she was a baby until she went to preschool. And so we, and she's a force as well. Like, so we have pictures of her with like a clipboard walking down the aisles and we've had to tell her to like not talk. Like one time, she was….
(AM) She needs to chill.
(SM) She was writing on her clipboard, just writing, and she can't even write at this time and one of our employees goes, oh, Sophia, what are you doing? And she's like, I’m taking notes about how you're working and we're like, you can't do that. Yeah, so, that's her.
(SM) She's not equipped for the employee evaluations quite yet.
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) She has to work on her soft skills, yeah.
(AM) And As far as it any of them even going into it, like...
(BM) They're all capable.
(AM) Yes.
[25:53]
(BM) They're all capable, but at the same time, it's just like Andy and I, we had to choose this. I want them to choose it. They have... They're very lucky, children, fortunate, and they have many option and so I want them... This is an option, but they have to choose that.
(SM) We're here at the Strong Conversations Podcast. We're talking to Andy and Breezy Mitchell from Mitchell Lumber Company, just talking about how they got to where they are now, which are the owners of this lumber yard, third generation owners in the family, possibly fourth, if the kids so decide. Let me ask you this, the dynamic here. We were joking a little bit earlier about, you know, co-owners and majority owner and all that, but we're talking a little bit right before we started recording. I imagine it's got to be, let's say interesting, being a married couple, going to work every day, raising a family, having a nursing and firefighting career outside of this, and then having to come home at night and maybe shut it off? Does it get shut off?
(AM) Not yet.
(BM) No.
(AM) No and I don't think we're there yet with this business.
(BM) We're too involved still.
(AM) Yeah, we’re very involved, which is good. I’m not complaining about that. I think that's what's pivotal to the success we've had. I remember a few years ago I tried to pitch this thing to Breezy that someone else had said. It was another husband-wife couple that were contractors and home flippers and rental and stuff like that. He's like, oh, yeah, we have a rule after 6 o'clock at night, no more business. I remember pitching that to Breezy, and she's like, nope.
(SM) It's not going to happen.
(AM) Hard no. I’m going come on, please?
(BM) I mean I start fielding phone calls at 5 a.m. You know?
(AM) Yeah, yeah, there's no off switch and she's right, you just can't.
(BM) But we both have our separate things outside of Mitchell Lumber, and I think that's how it works. So he goes to the fire department. So he’s gone…
(AM) She gets a break from me.
(BM) 24 hours and then he's back for 48 hours and then I keep myself busy as well and so I feel like that is really good for us. [28:02]
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) Because we have something together, but we have our responsibilities outside of Mitchell Lumber as well and sometimes we're there at the same time, and sometimes he's there and I’m there,but since we do it together and we share so many responsibilities, it gives him time to still continue his career as a firefighter and it gives me time. So right now I’m on the school board for my children's school district and so it gives me time to give back in a way that feels meaningful to me. So we get to kind of unplug from Mitchell Lumber. It's not everything that we do.
(AM) Yeah, I think it's important. Yeah. It’s an important way I think to have a career for anyone is to not let it run your, I mean it's obvious right, don't let it run your life, but don't identify as that, right? Identify as…
(SM) It shouldn't be at the top of yeah, the list of accomplishments for anybody right is what they did for a living? Yeah, I would agree.
(BM) But we've always shared like responsibilities and kind of been you know, we tap in and tap out because when I was a nurse and he was a firefighter we're both working shift work.
(SM) Right.
(BM) And so it was literally there was times where he would drop the kids off at the hospital, and I'd put him in a room and like turn the TV on and go and finish an hour or two of work, and then go home, and then.
(AM) There was a lot of kid handoffs in front of the hospital at like five in the morning on my way to academy or whatever. The work dynamic, I think, works pretty well, though, the most important thing is just pretty clear communication, right? Which it's not even just like the fact that we're married, but I think that's an important way to run a back office at a business in general is to just say what you mean, be clear, be respectful, and just know exactly where everyone stands on each topic. And don't be afraid to share your opinion or your feelings or why you disagree and your perspective instead of just being like, well, no, that's wrong.
(BM) Yeah, so we could learn.
(AM) That might not be wrong, but here's my perspective on it, and here's what I've learned in the industry that's given me that perspective, why are you thinking different? Let's talk about it.
(BM) And giving yourself grace and giving other people grace as well.
(SM) Yeah.
[30:08]
(BM) Because like sometimes I'll admit that I'll be in a foul mood and he's like you just need to think of it this way and I’m like, you're right, I do. And so back and forth, you know. And we tell our employees that too. It's like You have to give yourself grace and give others grace as well and think about intentions because no one comes to work to do a bad job, and no one shows up to be rude, you know, and so.
(SM) Can we talk about your employees for a second? Because I’m curious being around the industry as long as you have and just, you know, I think we're all of the same generation here at this table, but what's that dynamic like? I'd imagine you have multiple generations of employees? You know we're in an age right now in society where in theory you have five different generations on some level in the workforce. I mean some are aging out obviously and there are those that are just coming in, but between you know you've got the baby boomers, you've got you know the what do they call the new generation or not millennials. We're you know, we're millennials.
(AM) Z.
(BM) Z, yeah.
(SM) The Z’s and then uh.
(BM) And then alphas are coming now too like our kids are alphas you know they're the.
(SM) I haven't even heard that. So they’re alphas?
(BM) That's like that's like the like 13 year olds, I think.
(SM) Okay, alright.
(AM) Beats me…
(SM) So then you've got you know obviously on the on the older side of the generation spectrum you've got a couple there too. So how do you guys navigate? Because every generation's different with how they want to be communicated with, you know, what devices you communicate with? I mean, some still love email, some want text, all of that, right?
(BM) Yeah, yeah. I think that you meet people where they are, right? And so right now we have a new employee who's kind of training to become a manager, and I was just talking to him and the biggest piece of advice I gave, I said to him, is like you have to meet people where they are. You can't expect them to meet you where you are and everyone is going to be different. You have to handle every person differently, every situation differently and you have to be able to read the room and see you know because what works for this person is not going to work for that person. I think also having, like I said, giving people grace. I talk about that a lot with our employees because sometimes [32:32}
(BM) …you have people from both ends of the timeline, I guess, and they see things completely different. And sometimes they're not willing to find that shared perspective. And that's okay. Not everyone has to, but when you're in a leadership role, you have to be able to meet people where they are and then hopefully everyone grows from that.
(SM) That’s great advice um speaking of advice you guys are teeing this up for me. What advice would you give yourselves 10 years ago? Taking on ownership. You know this this responsibility that's being forced upon you at that time of your life. What's something you know now that you wish you'd known then?
(AM) I’m trying I’m trying to think how to word it and not have it be so basic, but don't be scared to try new things in the business. Don't be scared to do something that no one else is doing. Don't be scared to make something your own. Just take risks, smart risks. It's probably easier for a company our size to say where we still have a lot of control, but we've told a lot of employees this where we're pitching some new, whatever it is, some new process or some new way to run this part of it or some new staffing change or job type, whatever it is, right? No, I don't know, you know, what about this, what about that, we've done it this way, this has always worked, and what I've come back to a lot is like, well, what if we just try it, right? What if it sucks, and then we stop doing it. Yeah, and we go back to way it was. Yeah, is that gonna…you can actually do that. I think that's just one of those things that we get kind of ingrained in our heads in the industry and probably most industries is like, no, this is the way, this has always worked. And it's like, well, yeah, but what if it, why not change it, why not try?
(BM) I might mess this saying up, but it's people overvalue what you have and you undervalue what you don't and so we're all, and we tell our employees, like, sometimes it's the wrong move. Like, we've made wrong moves in dispatching, and we've had to backtrack it and be like, okay, that did not work out.
(AM) We screwed a lot of stuff up.
(BM) We're going to go back to the other way. But I think also knowing what you don't know as well. So when I came on in the back office, and then I had someone fill in for me at the back office, and I was taking on more of helping being a leader in managing the employees when I went down to the front counter and I had been at the front counter in 2005 but it had been you know 15 years and I’m like please explain to me how you do this like they know better than I did. So, I had to lean on the employees and be like tell me what you think is the best way to do that and you know some people can think that’s a weak way to lead, but they know better than I do.
(SM) I don't think it's a weak way to lead, in my opinion. I think you're exactly right. I mean, the people that are closest to the day-to-day operations are usually going to have more working knowledge as to what works and what does not. [36:38]
(BM) You have to include them in the decisions because people, especially now, you know, it's not just a paycheck. People want to feel like they're making a difference. They want to feel value in what they do, and they want to be part of the decision-making process and I think going back to the generation thing, that's one of the hardest things because people now, they want to be part of the solution. They don't want to just, like, they don't want to be told what to do and they want to know why.
(SM) Yep
(BM) And sometimes that kind of questioning, well, why, why? That can come off, like, rude, but they generally just want to know why.
(SM) All the information.
(BM) Why am I doing this why is that going to make a positive impact.
(AM) Once you figure out what motivates people or makes people value their position, their job or their what makes them happy at work, accross generations not even just generationally it's it could be in the same generation they get two different things. One, person might love working commission based and it might it might terrify somebody else in the same position from the same generation, but once you're able to get on the same wavelength and lock in, like there's no better, it's awesome. You can't put into words how well that works once you figure out, once you guys meet, right? Yeah, and where they are. Well, that's when the magic happens, right? Then you become unstoppable, and it's fun. That's when it really gets awesome.
(SM) So speaking of unstoppable, what's next for you two?
(AM) I think we're going whiskey tasting.
(BM) Well, actually, our CPA has turned and he has accepted an offer and he's becoming our CFO on Monday.
(SM) And this is, this Monday?
(BM) That's kind of a full circle. Yeah, Kyle,
(SM) This is Mr. Kyle Kincaid.
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) So that's exciting for us. [37:20]
(SM)So I love that it does come full circle because a guy who was too busy to potentially help you guys, gives you an hour, takes you on as a client, has been helping you guys for the last decade, and is now officially an employee, once again, over at Mitchell Lumber, as the CFO.
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) We're very grateful.
(AM) It was, I think the last, it was almost accidental, I had invited him out, and then Justin out, our IT manager out, who's also been in the industry for a lot of years as well, so they're kind of like the trusted advisors. I mean, they have their titles, the CPA and an IT manager, but there's a lot more than that. I invited them out for, I invited Kyle out, and then Justin invited himself, which is classic Justin, but...
(SM) Well, he was just meeting you where you guys were out.
(AM) Yeah, and I said, hey, it's come out and it's just brainstorm on some things. I just was, I was like going full mad scientists on the whiteboard a few weeks before with just like margin strategies and stuff like that and how to get some more out of the business without really having to spend a bunch of money catching up on some things I probably should have been doing that those two guys specialize on. I said, let's come out, no agenda, let's sit down and just have a brainstorm session and Breezy was in, we have a shared office. And so it was me and Kyle and Justin just going full nerd style, writing stuff down, just like giggling over 10 key data.
(BM) Margins.
(AM) Yeah. She's doing her work, just like, what, this is the most, this is so boring. But anyways, we had this meeting, it went great, it was exactly what I wanted, and Kyle's leaving the room, and he goes, well, is there anything else you want for me? And he, through the course of this meeting, I was given like seven years worth of work that I was never ever going to be able to get done, right? And he's like, anything else before I go? And I go, yeah, I need you on payroll. And he's like, yeah, okay. And I was like, well, I was serious, like, really? And he's like, yeah, I’m like, because I’m going to hold you to that and then we had a few more conversations about it. Like, you know, do the actual professional stuff where you actually sit down and talk about it instead of dreaming about it. And again.
(BM) Yeah, he starts Monday.
(AM) We sold him and he starts Monday.
(SM) That's awesome. Well, congrats on you two, for y9ou tow for getting him and again, closing that loop, full circle there. [39:33]
(AM) Yeah.
(BM) Give opportunities to do more too
(AM) Yeah it allows me to get out get out from in front of the computer and yeah and I don't even, when you say what's next I don't know, but I'll find something. If I’m cut loose from doing that work and I have someone who's probably monumentally better at it than me and has been doing it for a lot longer I’m gonna go find something else to hop into in the business and figure out and it's gonna be fun no matter what it is.
(SM) Right on well speaking of fun last question I have for you guys and because you guys are essentially splitting everything in terms of the conversations, Lumberyard, everything else. I need different answers from you guys. I guess it could be the same answer, but I want to hear from both of you. You go to the lumber yard, ideal state, you got music playing. What's playing? What's getting you through the day? What's on your short list?
(AM) She doesn't let me play music because it distracts her.
(BM) Iam kind of a psychopath like that.
(AM) Okay, let's say she's at the hospital doing the nurse stuff.
(BM) I drink black coffee and no music.
(AM) Black coffee coffee, no music and frowns. That’s her workstyle, but it's like it's you know probably like everyone's answer a pre-eclectic mix because I I heard you ask Mike that and I was like going through my playlist and I’m like there’s some weird stuff in here.
(SM). Side note, everyone has an eclectic taste in music.
(AM) Yeah that's right right.
(SM) If I could ask one ask of people in the future if you're listening to this, don't tell me that you have an eclectic taste in music.
(AM) Take that out in post.
(SM) Yeah, I mean, just don't do it. Everyone, there's not one person on earth that’s like I just listen to REO Speedwagon, and that's it.
(AM) How'd you know, man?
(BM) Actually, funny story, our middle child is named Reo, REO. And it is a family name. It was his great-grandfather. His name was Reo Mitchell and so we named our son Reo Mitchell and then finally we got a hold of his great aunt and we're like where does that name Reo come from and she was like REO Speedwagon.
(AM) Not the band but the you know the truck. Yeah, but uh so I so I thought I was gonna be a rock star when I was like a teenager in high school. Like I had a little band and we played blues and rock, and I loved, like, Sublime and Nirvana, that generation, Pearl Jam and Sound Garden, but also, like, I listen to the classics. My parents had a record collection, and I still have it. Like, I've got every Zeppelin, original studio release, Zeppelin album.
(SM) Right on.
(AM) And they get played, they're not, you know, beautiful. I was just listening to them with Reo the other day, actually. Like, kind of like, oh, yeah, this is a great song. Let's skip this, flip that side. Let's go hear that song. Usually when I’m coming to work, I’m coming off a 24-hour shift or a 48-hour shift, and I’m, like, pretty tired. So I try and pick something that's going to uplift my mood. So, I think, what is it right now? I just got turned on to, so I’m probably late to the show, but Tyler Childers.
(SM) I don't even know who that is.
(AM) Yeah, that's pretty awesome. It's country, but it's not like the, you know, in the 90s country where it kind of took, or early 2000s country where it took more of a pop twist. This is really stripped down Southern rock, blues, soul, gospel stuff, man, that's so awesome. So I try and pick something that's gonna make me not be super grumpy and tired in my 15 or 20 minute drive into the office in the morning. But I also have playlists that are called, “We're gonna be mad today”. I have those playlist and those are like Metallica and punk rock and Slipknot. Sometimes you just got to be mad right? Sometimes you just got to be angry.
(SM) All right so Tyler Childers on a good day, Metallica and whatever Des Moines Iowa's finest…
(AM) Yeah that's right.
(SM) … on amad day. What about you Breezy?
(BM) Um like I do value silence so it's hard for me um/
(SM) Simon and Garfunkel then?
(BM) Iwould have to say…
(SM) I mean, there's the disturbing version of silence. [43:20]
(BM) I love Jack Johnson, and it takes me back to when I started at the Lumberyard and we had like a six CD disc changer up at the front counter, you know, and we had all, we had a bunch of Jack Johnson and Dave Matthews in there, and it just rotated. And Jack Johnson, especially for me, I've listened to him for so long that there's different music that kind of fits in different parts of our lives.
(SM) Yeah
(BM) And so that's kind of nostalgic for me.
(AM) We had a Credence day in the office when you were gone.
(SM) It all comes out in the podcaset.
(AM) We had all the doors open. I had the Bluetooth speaker on.
(BM) They have so much fun when I’m gone.
(AM) One of our sales teams is on the same floor as us in the upstairs and it's like this it's all wood paneled so it's like really echoey and she wasn't there and I was just like you know what today's the day we're doing Credence today and I just turn it, crank the thing up and that's all you can hear upstairs was Credence full blast. It was awesome.
(SM) Did you know this?
(BM) No. It is funny that because if you walk through the store, you get different parts of music. So front counter is always playing something different. You go out to the yard and it's like…
(AM) Angry music.
(BM) Angry, like, metal music. It's kind of funny.
(SM) You got a hold of your mad playlist. Well, speaking to the playlist, I hope everyone here is enjoying the Strong Conversations podcast, Andy and Breezy Mitchell, owners of Mitchell Lumber Company up in Washington, just outside of Seattle, about an hour. Thank you guys very much for being here, and thank you guys for listening or watching this. Stay tuned for more episodes of the Strong Conversation podcast with more people in this industry wondering how they got here. [44:54]
ANDY & BREEZY MITCHELL: END