THE FUTURE OF WOMEN IN CONSTRUCTION In this episode, we talk to three rising stars not just in their companies but also in the industry. We get to hear personal stories about how each of guests entered in the industry but more importantly what’s keeping them in the industry. We share tips on how to be successful when you’re just starting out and how to create your own career path. HOST: Tina Haro – Senior National Accounts Manager, Simpson Strong-Tie Keaton Mower – National Accounts Manager, Westlake Royal Building Products Kristin French – Director of Purchasing, Taylor Morrison Justine Simmons - Director of Builder National Accounts, James Hardie Building Products
Tina Haro
Welcome to our podcast series on Women in Residential Construction. My name is Tina Haro and I am a senior national builder manager with Simpson Strong Tie. In this episode, we discuss the future of women in residential construction. Today, I'm joined by three rising stars in the industry. Please help me welcome my guests.
Justine Simmons
Hi, Tina. Thank you. I'm Justine Simmons. I work for James Hardie Building Products and I'm the director of National Accounts overseeing our builders.
Keaton Mower
Thanks for having us, Tina. My name is Keaton Mower. I am our national account manager for Westlake Royal Building Products.
Kristin French
Thanks for having us, Tina. I am Kristin French. I am the director of purchasing for Taylor Morrison's Build for Rent brand Yardly.
Tina Haro
Thank you all so much for taking time out of your busy schedules to join me. I really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to getting into this a little bit more. Let's start with what brought you to the industry. I know we all came from different backgrounds. We didn't necessarily go to college to become national account managers or purchasing managers. So, Justine, tell me what brought you to the industry.
Justine Simmons
Yeah. I mean, we've had these chats before too. It's so interesting how we all end up in this industry and it seems like it's a stepping stone and yet we all are still here and in it still. And so, I landed in it randomly when I was moving from Michigan down to Alabama. And so, my company that I'm with today, James Hardie, recruited me and it was a, you know, know the recruiter went to the same college as me We just had this connection kind of randomly and I said, okay, give it a shot It was one of those things where we'll see where it goes and then maybe it'll look great on my resume And I'll go from there and so I ended up part of it as my company ends up just loving my company and now I can't imagine leaving the industry. But I was fairly young not long out of college when I got into it. And once I started it was more one of those things where I couldn't imagine going outside the industry and so it was Just one of those random things that happened.
Tina Haro
Keaton, what brought you to the industry?
Keaton Mower
Very randomly as you were saying. Yeah, you never anticipate going into an industry of building materials, right? Or home building. My friends love to make fun of me for it. You're that roofing girl. Like yeah, yeah, but right after college I had a family friend and he said hey, I think you need to meet with one of my friends. He's looking for someone. They said, okay, cool. I might you know, I just graduated with a business degree What's he got? And he goes roofing building materials. I go, oh, I didn't go to college for that. Thank you though no humble yourself. He'll go meet with them and met with him and he ended up being one of my mentors for the past seven years and helped me get to where I am now
Tina Haro
That's awesome and Kristen
Kristin French
I got lucky enough that a company was looking for a culture fit not experience and so I really got to get on the ground learn so many different departments with this builder and it's so important that we have those opportunities and so I'm very grateful for it And I know that's getting ahead but as soon as I got to go into the purchasing and the design and I even did warranty and everyone should have to do warranty for at least a month to have appreciation for customer service, I just fell in love with it and I left the industry for one year and I missed it, my heart's just in it, I love the smell of carpet and I love the smell of wood, so I think I'm in it for a while.
Tina Haro
That's great, I can't agree more and you mentioned customer service and I came from hospitality and I agree with you, I mean I think everyone should have to be in the service industry before entering any career, but especially a career in our industry because it teaches you so many challenges that we have to overcome, especially as women in this industry. Tell me a little bit about some of those challenges that you have faced but has also made you better and stronger at what you do. Let's start with Keaton.
Keaton Mower
For me, it was just being a young girl entering in the industry, I had just graduated college, I had no idea what I was doing and I started off as a design center coordinator which, for the building product side, I believe everyone should probably start, I just really understand the materials that we make to be able to speak to them. What I found is so important is being able to have such great leaders to really take an interest in your career and to help you grow, to show you your strengths, your weaknesses because with that together, you can continue to learn and continue to grow and climb in that company that you really want. For me, it was just being young and people not necessarily knowing if I really knew everything and at the beginning, I really didn't, if I get to make it kind of a deal, but I was confident in what I said and then all of a sudden, I started having a passion for what I did. It's not necessarily a passion for building materials, but it's a passion for the industry and for the people in it. I started learning that every day is different, you work with different personalities, you work with different pieces of the business day in and day out, and that became a really exciting challenge for me. And so being able to really dive in and learn about the materials and what it is that's greater than just what we do. It's an industry as a whole and what we're doing for everyone. So I found a passion for that and I have the best, best mentors to help take an interest in my career and help grow me. That's been huge. –
Tina Haro
Yeah, you make a good point. I mean, you have to have passion for whatever you do, right? I mean, in order to stick with it, it's so important to have great mentors, great leaders, but if the passion's not there, then you're just going through the motions. So, Justine, what drives you? What keeps you going? –
Justine Simmons
Such an interesting question. Well, obviously, like personally, I have a family and from the get -go, I would say, you know, my husband would be like day in and day out saying, like, let's get up, let's go. But one of the things is when you're starting out, and Keaton mentioned it, and you're one of, sometimes we don't know the only females in the room. Sometimes we were younger when we started, certainly, and this drive to prove yourself, and it's a quiet drive, right? That you feel like both Keaton and Kristen mentioned starting on the ground level and learning something at the root. And so for me, I wanted to learn and know everything about our products and the industry. And I started to subscribe to different emails and different websites. Like, I didn't want to walk in somewhere and someone to say, hey, did you hear about the price of this went up or down? And me feel like I was not educated on it. So it was more of this internal drive to be educated. And I didn't want anyone to question me being in the room. And sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn't. But what drove me to basically get to a point where it was this like neutrality, where I didn't really want someone to even notice if I was a female or not, right? It was simply just, I knew my stuff. I knew my company, I knew my product, and I knew the industry. And so it was really this drive to get to that place and get to where I could be the go to or the person that people that people called.
Tina Haro
Yeah. It's an interesting point you make because we, compared to our male counterparts in the same position, I don't feel like we start on necessarily a level playing field. Like we have to know our stuff. We have to be confident. Like you said, fake it till you make it. Like you just got to put on the very face and go in and act like you know what you're doing. And in the meantime, we're, we're in the background learning everything. We're making sure we do know so we can back up what we say, right? Additionally, you were talking about having a family. I mean, that's the challenge that all of us face. Kristen, you have a new baby at home. And, you know, you had mentioned offline, but that being able to have women that are role models, and we were talking about leaders in the industry, that they all have families at home. And yet they're still pursuing their careers. They're still kicking butt. You know, they're, they're doing it all. And for you to have that, that role model, that mentor, someone to look up to, what does that mean to you? And how did that impact your decision to come back to work after having kids?
Kristin French
Well, it definitely keeps me going. There's so many women out there that are traveling for work or in very high demand jobs or have the drive, have the hunger, want more, and want to just continue their careers and to see other women accomplishing that. And Justine, at one point, we were texting, and you're like, I just like, why doesn't someone give me a gold star every day? This is so hard. And I, I agreed. And I was like, that is exactly how I feel, because you're trying to manage so much. And it's, it's really tough, but it's nice to have the role models and the other females that are paving the way and that have come before us, and that is a shift that I have been seeing, is companies are also a lot more understanding. They're having more resources for us, like coming back to work to make it easier and to make us to still be able to balance both, which is really difficult. But yeah, it's a journey, and it's really nice to see other women doing it and that have gone through it because you're not alone. And even if you feel like it, or if you feel like you're on your own path, you really aren't. There's so many women out there going through it, and so it's nice to get everyone to get together and talk about it, have the resources, network.
Tina Haro
And you all look, you make it look so easy. I mean, I look at everyone and I'm like, "How are you doing this?" You do. And you just have this face that's beautiful and smiling and happy, and it doesn't look like anything's going on in the background, but you know that.
Justine Simmons
That we only got three hours to sleep. Yeah, exactly, exactly. The wheels are spinning, you're going nonstop. Essentially still faking it till we make it. It's a nonstop thing, actually. Imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome.
Tina Haro
Speaking of imposter syndrome, I found this for myself personally. I don't know if you have the same experience, but self -promotion. So being able to accept the accolades, the honors, the promotion, and feel like you're deserving of it, I found that that's difficult for me to accept, and I don't see my male counterparts having that same challenge. So what has your experience been with that, Justine?
Justine Simmons
And we've discussed this, like, male versus female. It's not necessarily about that, right? It's personality that really should be driving this and what someone's bringing to the table. But that being said, I certainly wouldn't be where I was. It wasn't for many of my male colleagues who were pulling me along and were basically telling me, "Hey, you know, you've earned this or you did well. Let's take the next step if you're ready." And so, when we were talking before this, I didn't necessarily have a female in this industry or in my company that I looked up to, and that was okay. I had the time, I didn't need that. I looked up to the male colleagues that I saw that were doing what I wanted to do. And so, I think for me, it's more about the fact that I've had people be able to help pull me along, and I've needed that because I don't think I would have sought it out. And we joke about imposter syndrome. I mean, I still have it to this day, and it's pretty well known that a lot of us talk about it and joke about it, but I say it's a blessing and it's a curse. And because in the having that imposter syndrome, I feel like I'm constantly still double -checking. I'm crossing my T's, I'm dotting my I's, and I'm still doing it to this day to make sure that I feel like I'm where that I should be or I'm proving that I should be where I am. And again, that's an internal thing, but I definitely think that you need, whether it's colleagues like we have, or we're sitting here talking to each other and saying, "No, no, no, you are amazing." Like Tina, this is like, we're so excited for you. Like, this is great, this is the next step. Or like, I'm so happy that you moved over here, X, Y, Z. And so it's that drive for us to have those conversations and be pulling each other up. But I've definitely, it's been the people at my company, it's been my colleagues that have really done it. And you're right, I think that that's something that I think a lot of us and I think women struggle with to raise their hand and say,
"It's my turn." And that's something that I definitely have struggled with, definitely.
Tina Haro
Absolutely, but you're where you belong, and you've earned the position you're in, and if it takes us telling you so that you believe it. Absolutely, you get a gold star today and every day. Keaton, I think you mentioned something about culture, culture of the industry, culture of your company. In general, what does that mean to you? –
Keaton Mower
Culture is community to me, and it's about who you surround yourself with and who you aspire to become, and who's gonna help you get there. So being able to have an amazing mentor who, again, has taken an interest in me and my career and really helping me learn and grow along the way, but being able to have women to look up to. When I first started, there weren't women at my company. Not a lot of them, not a lot that I worked with, not a lot with the builders that I worked with or other trade partners. So to be able to grow into my role and grow in my company, but being able to watch you rock star moms and even you, Tina, who just day in and day out, you are so on point with everything and so organized. I look up to all of you of how you all do it, and it's such a supportive community, I think too, Justine's point, women can be so hard on ourselves and it can be a blessing and a curse. By being hard on ourselves, we're getting better every day. We're not just gonna settle for, yeah, maybe I deserve it, maybe you don't, but I'm gonna take it. No, we wanna analyze and examine, okay, why should I have this role? I'm great at these aspects, but why don't I believe I deserve it? We're a little harder on ourselves and being able to have that supportive culture, supportive community, just being able to look up to you guys and be like, okay, they're moms, they did it, maybe I can do it one day or look at how successful you guys are at such a young ages and why shouldn't I be able to shy for that?
Tina Haro
Yeah, absolutely, and you are, you're kicking butt already. Definitely, we talk about mentorship, we talk about leadership, what's our role? 'Cause we're getting there, right? We're up and comers, but how do we pay it forward? Like, what's our role in the mentorship leadership game?
Keaton Mower
For me, it's thinking about how other women are helping me develop right now, taking note and recognizing how grateful I am for that so that when it becomes our time, or my time, that then I can help the young women entering and be like, hey, I remember when I first started and I had no idea what I was doing. I was the only young girl, no one wanted to really listen to me or thought I knew what I was talking about. But because I had such a great community and culture around me and supportive women, let me help you instead of trying to gatekeep everything.
Tina Haro
Yeah, I just think of the last several years of us all getting to know each other and what great network we now have. And it's taken years to get here and look at how many women are in the room now when we show up, it's awesome. So I'm so grateful for having the relationships that we've developed here. –
Kristin French
So you've been mentioning just having mentors and I think that's so important. And mentorship also doesn't have to be formal. So I find that when I'm talking to women that are younger, I don't even sometimes older, maybe we can have a nugget of knowledge for them. I find that it can be just little things that help build them up. And sometimes the informal mentoring comes from just like networking. And I think it's so important to network young and network often because that's how you build it up. And that's how you get to, I think, where we're sitting today and having all these amazing women that we've gotten to interact with and men too. It's so important. –
Keaton Mower
You get what you... Put into it. - Thank you. What you give is what you get, right? So what you're putting into the networking and the, as Tina was mentioning, relationship piece of it. So the relationship building side of all of it, recognizing where we're at and that we don't know everything. But I know that I don't know everything. So I want to lean on you guys to teach me and I wanna show up where you all are at so that I can continue to gain confidence and gain more knowledge and just look at you guys as such great leaders and to this point, older sisters in a sense. So recognizing that we don't know everything but showing up to learn everything.
Tina Haro
Did you just call us old Keaton?
Justine Simmons
No, that's the kind of second.
She said older sisters, I'll take that.
I'll take it, I'll take it. - It's a sister role, yes, that's cute, that's cute. –
Justine Simmons
I think it's really like my mom's out of knocked her off her stool. But I know, and I do think it's interesting, and comer females at my company that I'm happy to help. But I also think they have some really great mentorship with the men and vice versa. And so when I talk to people, whether it's in the industry or at my company, it's 100 % whether it's male or female. It's more about, one of our discussions about the industry can be a little bit tough. And so whether it's a male or female, they can struggle kind of getting into it. And so I think being able to be a resource and it be open and it not be limited as well, call me if you're a female and that's it, right? So I like that we, to keep the door open, it's like, listen, I'm just about everyone, I'm learning every day. I tell people that I have not reached, even close to where I should be at. So every day I'm like, oh, that's interesting, and so same thing, we're learning, we can gain knowledge from the people around us and vice versa. And so there's a lot of people just within the industry and our company that I think we can mentor and help as well.
Kristin French
Absolutely. And Tina was again, going back to the culture piece, the culture that men are, they can just kind of rough house, right? And it's a love language for them to sometimes maybe pull us women into that that and learning the difference of, no, it's their love language. They're messing around with us or rough housing because they like us and they're including us, right? As opposed to looking at it and maybe being a little bit more sensitive. So also being able to help women along the way, say, hey, you know, that comment, it's good. You know, if he's kind of messing with you a little bit, that means that he likes you. So take it as a love language type of idea rather than being a little bit more offended. Yeah. - Which I still learn every day. - Help them manage that.
Justine Simmons
And I think even just that concept of sensitivity, right? And so, and again, I go back to it, there could be men that don't necessarily like to have that level of conversation or they might feel a sensitive to a comment. And so I think thick skin. I think we've said this before. I think that it's the youth ride when there's a level of thick skin where you can kind of, you know, deal with tough conversations, both internal and external. And I think you have to have a certain personality to do that and being able to help guide people through that. And again, we're still every day figuring it out as well. But, you know, being able to explain from our perspective and be able to share a story of, oh, this happened to me is a similar to what you're talking about is, again, just being able to have that resource versus potentially when we were kind of coming up into the industry, we may have not had anyone to ping that off of.
Kristin French
And I also think to get the thicker skin, it's knowing your stuff and having that confidence that you know the details, you know there's a price increase in what's behind it. And that can be really tough to get to younger because you still have so much to learn. But also, if you can admit that you want to learn, a lot of people really strive with that too. They want to teach. And if you're open and just want to absorb it, then you'll have so many doors open for you too. It's just a matter of saying like, hey, I'm willing to learn. I know I don't know everything. Like we keep saying.
Justine Simmons
Yeah. It's as we like to continue to learn. We have a lot to learn. Yeah, we have to learn to navigate, right? That's a huge one too.
Tina Haro
Yeah. So we talked a little bit about some of the challenges that we face as women in the industry, but are there some advantages of being women in the industry? I mean, I find that we have a different perspective which can provide an alternative solution. Maybe we think outside the box, what's your experience been with, you know, just the advantages of being a woman.
Kristin French
Yeah, I think we were talking about it just earlier, but you stand out more. And so they might, I know this is gonna sound bad, but if they have so many reps coming in and you're the only female rep that's coming in, that's a huge advantage because you are going to be more memorable. And then once they talk with you and you know all your stuff, then they want to, they're like, "Oh, okay. I actually really liked interacting with her. She gave me all the information." But I think, Justine, you were talking a little bit more about that.
Justine Simmons
Yeah, I mean, I think that one of those things that, again, it's about stand out and whether it's for the right reason, the wrong reason, regardless, it may get you in the door. Oh, this is interesting. Like, and then what you then have to do is bring the substance or that might be the last time you do get in that door. But I do think there's an, I mean, an advantage in just that we bring, biology totally plays a part and that's what we were saying. So sometimes we're a little bit more paying more attention to certain details and we're more, you know, really good at follow -up or, you know, there's different things that we naturally have some abilities to do that I think outside of just being like, "Oh, this is interesting. I'll have you come in to talk." It's more about when there is a conversation about something important that we need to decide at our companies, right? And our perspectives that we can bring to it, I've often heard, "Oh, I hadn't thought of that," right? And so, I do think that we're bringing in, we're a little bit more introspective, we're a little bit, you know, for better or worse, I'm kind of always thinking of worst case scenario. So, I'm always bringing in, "Hey, what about this? What if this happens? What if this happens?" So, I definitely think outside of that, I think we're just bringing that, you know, we can bring these different elements that come natural to us that we don't even think about.
Keaton Mower
To your point as well, it's the intuition piece. There's a lot of women at my company who I admire because we'll be in a meeting and we'll step out and say, "My gut's telling me it's going to go this way," you know, and some of the men will be like, "Well, I don't think so. They said this." Well, no, intuition, and 99% of the time, the women are right with that gut feeling. So, even having that little advantage, just being able to be in tune and bring that piece to the business side as well.
Justine Simmons
Definitely. Yep. I think our relationships do, like, I mean, we've talked about this a lot and some women would love hunting or golfing or doing these different events, and some of us do not, and so then you have to build a relationship in a different way, and so then we're also bringing forth this different avenue of sometimes what can be a deeper connection that we can create with our customers or our colleagues because, you know, sometimes we're getting deeper than just surface level, you know, we're talking about families or, you know, I mean, we're diving in deeper with them on, you know, again, work soft spreadsheets, et cetera, right? Like, let me get into this with you, and it just forges a bond sometimes in a different way than the traditional male colleagues of, "Hey, let's go fishing," which is 100 % a great avenue as well, right? And a big fan of fellowship and getting together, and that's critical. I just think sometimes we have to do that in a different way, and that can be hard, but then there's some advantages like I said to kind of how we have to get there.
Tina Haro
We talked about just diversity of a team in general too. So not, you know, obviously this is a women in residential construction podcast, but we can't do it alone. None of us got here on our own. So the importance of just building the right team, right? Having diversity, whether it's gender, it doesn't matter. Personality, it's, you know, you might be really good at spreadsheets. I'm really good at taking people out. Planning, you're very good at planning events. - I'm a planner, that's for sure. So what has made your teams successful? And what's your strength? Like what do you bring to that team?
Justine Simmons
I mean, I would say it's like an ingredient, you know, like I'm baking a cake, right? So it's like the different ingredients and I need more of that, but just a dash of this. And I think having a combination of people who can again entertain, be able to make connections with our, you know, our customers. But I think, you know, there's gonna be people that are more, you know, that elicit trust right off the bat, right? And then there's people that are really, really good with the background stuff. We talked about this really good at, you know, the math, running spreadsheets. Very good at getting in the door. And so I think that there's just different parts and pieces and traits of people that you really, you know, that combine to make this really great team. And I would say, you know, personally, I get very into the weeds, into the details. Again, blessing and curse, right? But I do find that that's been something that I've been able to bring is like, I can go through something and I look at it more and I can get into the details and it usually can help whatever the, you know, issue is that we're looking at. And so I definitely try to do that versus, you know, like someone more of the overarching plan. I definitely think we can get more in the weeds sometimes. It can be good.
Tina Haro
I like your analogy of baking a cake. It is, it's a recipe. We need the right ingredients and you need the right amount.
Justine Simmons
And sometimes there's a lot more flour and then only the dash of salt, but sometimes without that dash, you know what I mean? And sometimes I think that that's what that's what it's gonna take, but I don't think there's a one size fits all. That certainly not, you know, my company or in this industry, it's definitely, and I think that's when we talk about, you know, women coming in and they're like, hey, does this something I would even wanna do is letting people know that, you know what I mean? That side of it is, I don't think if people knew like what our day in and day out is, like they would think that that's super, like some of the things that we get to do is great, right? And so I think it's a way to let people know really the, you know, the setup of it.
Kristin French
One great thing about the home building industry, I would do is that none of us intended to get into it, but once we're in it, everyone seems to have a passion for it. And that's so important. We were talking about that earlier, is just having the passion for it. And once you've like established it, and then you have like, you kind of go with your need, the company needs of what are you hiring for at that moment? And that kind of contributes to the diversity, I think too, is that's always gonna change. So you might need someone with experience, or you might need someone that's just a culture fit. And luckily when I was looking for jobs, I found a company that was looking for a culture fit, and then you just fall in love. And I don't think that everyone can say that for other industries. I don't know a ton of people are just like, "I love accounting." So I think that's a huge benefit of the home building industry is most people who fall into it, just love it.
Justine Simmons
Yeah, I don't see a lot of people exiting it. They may be moving companies around, but I don't see a lot of people that leave it once they get into it. And also in some of that is like the network. I mean, like how we're all together and we see each other all the time at these different events. And it's that network of people, and even on like more local levels. Again, somebody just stumbles into it and ends up in the industry a bit. They're whole, I was talking to someone the other day and they were just saying like, "My friends, my friends are in this industry. My friend is someone I met by working in this role." And it's just that type of industry is the network that we create.
Keaton Mower
Oh, and Kristen, you trader. She tried getting out for one year and came right back. That's right, came right back. So you'll hear about people leaving for a year max and they're right back. Yeah. So I started in this industry. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. You girls are stuck with me. Yeah. We're happy to have you. Yeah.
Tina Haro
Yeah, I can't imagine changing industries. And it's funny you mentioned like explaining to someone your day to day and like trying to explain to someone that's not in the role, what our job is. It's really challenging. It's like, wait, what do you do? I don't know. Just go with it. Yeah.
Keaton Mower
That's right. My parents are always telling me, "Oh, I'm so sorry.
Tina Haro
You have to go." You have to go take your client out and if I do, you have to go to Nashville to record a podcast with your friends. That's right.
Keaton Mower
Listen, late night early mornings, it can get tough out here.
Justine Simmons
They're like, "What do you do?" I sell siding. I mean, that's what, you know, when it comes down to the root of it, you're like, "Siding products." Yeah, it's building products.
Tina Haro
I develop relationships. Yeah, that's right. That's what we do. You need any roofing or stone?
Keaton Mower
It's funny. No one knows what we do. I'm sure it's same for you, but friend -wise, family -wise, until my dad, he's like, "Hey, you are in roofing. Dad, you know this." I need a new roof. You got any connections? That's when they remember a while. Good for you. What's on your roof is something I make. That's great. That's great. For the design tips. They're like, "Ooh, what would look good?" Yeah, exactly.
Tina Haro
So again, we've talked about culture and mentorship and leadership. Within your individual companies, how are you being supported with your career path? And are there any specific women leadership courses or groups or anything that's helping elevate you?
Kristin French
Yeah, absolutely. So earlier this year, Taylor Morrison announced the creation of a first of its kind of like board fellowship program. So it opens up the door for two different candidates to come in and actually get board level experience and so that they can go and transfer that to some other company or actually go sit on other boards having that fellowship experience. And having a company, Taylor Morrison, leading the way with that is so inspiring because it shows that they're really focused on giving everyone opportunities where they may not have it previously. And even like Cheryl Palmer, she's the CEO, very inspirational to see everything that she's done for the building industry as well. –
Tina Haro
Definitely. I mean, that's an awesome role model to have. – Definitely. - To have a female CEO. What a great program. - Yeah. - That's really exciting. - That's great. - Hopefully, yeah, more of that to happen for other companies and-- - That's a good example, right? - Absolutely.
Yeah, that's great. –
Keaton Mower
Westlake is great with every quarter, there's a woman in Westlake, huge seminar that goes on and it's online and you don't have to attend, but everyone does, all the women in, throughout the different building products categories. And you have all the way from the C -suite to people like me. And so on the sales side, so it's really cool to be able to see all the women come in support and teach on different points of the business. And hey, if you have any questions or need anything, here's who to reach out to. We want you to grow in this community, in this company. And I just think Westlake does a great job of pointing out, hey, there are women here who we want to continue to grow and nurture and pull to the top. So being able to even know who those contacts are is very helpful.
Justine Simmons
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And we have a women's initiative network that we have. And I think it's been really great because we've gone through an evolution of it where it was isolated to just the females. And that's not what I ever wanted, right? Because again, that's not how I think we grew out or push each other. So now it's what I really like about it is it's open and we have our calls and again, we have men that participate in it. We brought in leaders in the industry that are females to tell their stories, board members, things like that. So it's really cool to be able to see that and talk about it some more. But again, it's not, I like that we're not, it's not super isolated. Again, most everybody in the company will join and participate and have a good discussion on it. So it's pretty cool to do that.
Keaton Mower
Full circle, you know, again, culture. Westlake is so great at being able to map out, hey, if you want it, come take it. There are opportunities here. We're gonna help you learn and grow. And as long as you work hard and have a passion for what you're doing, you can have any role that you want. And being able to have that right mentor, again, man or female, being able to pull you up is everything.
Justine Simmons
I think it's more about, I mean, the evolution of it and being able to, again, make this more well known that this is a really great industry. And I think all of us are pretty passionate about the companies we work for too. So I think that's a big piece of it too. I think we're passionate for home building and being in the industry, but also knowing our product, knowing the people that we work with. And so, I mean, I think that just comes along with it and making it so that, hey, anyone's obviously welcome, right? But you just have to have, again, male or female, you just have to have the right combination to be able to jump in and succeed.
Tina Haro
Yeah, it's definitely an industry of passion. You know, I don't have a passion for bent metal. That's what we manufacture, that's what we sell, but it's the people, right? It's a people industry. And that's what I'm here for. So, final thoughts as we wrap up. What would you like to see or what would you like to be able to affect? Like, what change can you bring or would you like to see to help, again, get more young women interested in the industry rather than just falling into it like we all did?
Justine Simmons
Great question. I know. I think that one of the things is just, again, making it more well -known, I mean, having these discussions and, you know, I think if someone's perusing on LinkedIn, for example, will they stop on one of our companies or will they stop when they look at something that's home -building? And I think if we're, you know, putting some face out there or being at events, and I think that that's a key component of it, especially when we're talking on the sale side. I do think that's where it can be tough. So, I think making it as something that's available and attainable for younger women to know what the industry is.
Kristin French
Selling ourselves a little bit more or, like, yes, talking about it more, I feel like so often we're like, "Oh, we just sell sighting or I'm just in purchasing," but actually maybe explaining it a little bit more and going into the details so then they actually know what it is to be in the building industry and that it's bigger than just the home builder. There are the manufacturers, the distributors. Like, it's such a wide array that they could get into.
Tina Haro
Yeah. There's a lot of opportunity and being able to kind of show what a career path could look like, I think that was something challenging when I first got into it and thought it was a stepping stone. It was because it's like, "Well, where do I go from here? Like, I'm just going to build a rep and then is that a career or do I go somewhere else?" Yeah.
Kristin French
And like helping guide them because when you first start, you really could go so many different directions and they don't know. and so it's really they're trying to figure out what departments or what categories really interest them and so helping them realize you have a lot of opportunity but we need to make sure it fits what you want yeah
Tina Haro
it's not a linear path no and they do have a role in it it's a lot like to choose
Keaton Mower
yeah you're not pigeonhole into one section if you don't like it right you can adjust absolutely yeah I think for me I'm the young one right now and so it's absorbing everything but I want to moving forward and make the change where if there is a young girl or young women who are joining not just Westlake but the industry right of saying hey I was in your shoes I wish I had a woman mentor at the time who was hey I started out when I was right out of college too you know here's how you go about things or here's you know if this hurts your feelings here's how I managed it I wish I had that piece so being able to recognize that and wanting to be that for the next generation that comes in.
Justine Simmons
yeah definitely and I think again the self -promotion piece is something that we probably all have to get over and we have to be able to say listen like this is you know this is the company I work for and you know this is my story and being able to get that out and be able to pull people in because again it's a super cool industry and we have a lot of fun in it and I think where we're at we know that we have a lot of women that we interact with now both you know at the builders and again on the manufacturing side but it's more of that entry -level day in and day out grind that we all had to go through that sometimes can feel a little bit more isolating and so I think it's more targeting that like we know that we're interacting with a lot of females now again not that we care one way or another it's just that we see more we're not the only female in a room now. And I think when you do enter in the space, particularly, again, on the sales side, on a manufacturing sales side, we want to make that more of a welcoming experience. And I think that's something that is up. I don't think we have the answer for that right now. I think that is something that we need to continue to think about and continue to be able to pull and help them, because those first couple of years are probably the hardest and being able to be there and be a resource for that group as well once they're on board. It's something I'm committed to trying to do. –
Kristin French
Yeah, and it's okay for them to make mistakes, make mistakes early and so that you learn from them and then you just don't do it again later. But you want to make the mistake at a lower level so that you have learned from it. And once you get up, you're not making the same ones. –
Justine Simmons
And again, we go back to it, I'd still make mistakes. And I said, that's somebody the other day. And I was having kind of a mentoring conversation with someone. And I said, I'm still learning and I still make mistakes. And they're like, you do? Like, yes. So like, keep doing it. Like you don't learn and you don't grow unless you can internally say, okay, like I need to improve here and I need to get better here. Or, yep, I made a mistake in owning up to it. And again, it doesn't matter if you're male or female, just being able to be like, listen, I've made this mistake and I learned from it. But being able to just be honest about it and be able to say, you're okay, like make 'em. And here's, here, call the right people and being able to, it's like a sigh of relief that they have knowing that they can, okay, I'm gonna figure this out. And I have somebody to call if I need to, to be able to ping this off of them. –
Keaton Mower
Absolutely. Being able to know your weaknesses, know that you can be wrong, learn and grow from them, don't make that mistake again. But also having confidence in yourself. I gave myself a promotion once. I said, you know what? I'm done being design center coordinator. I feel more of a territory manager. So I ordered myself some cards. That was the job I started doing. And I was like, I'd like my pay to reflect this, please. I think I've done a good job. – I love that. That's awesome. And everyone agrees. And then that's how I got to be the territory manager. So it's also having the confidence in yourself and calling it out and be like, hey, you know what? I've been doing this job. I know I know what I know. I learned it. Yeah, I'm going to continue to learn. I still don't know everything, but I think I can do a darn good job at this. So my card reflects this.
Justine Simmons
And I think it's just incredible. I feel like we've been talking about self -promotion in this whole podcast and you could have led with that. I know, that's such a good story.
Tina Haro
That is a great story. You know, it's great to be humble because then you're pliable, you're teachable, you're coachable, but at the same time, you earn the accolades, you own who you are, what you've done, the experience, everything. Like that is just a perfect way to end this podcast. So I want to thank you all again for your time. I appreciate you being in studio today. And let's continue the conversation. Let's do it. This was so fun. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.